Consolidated Kansas

[JosieChick]

I am not sure this is true. We just took hunters safety this past fall and one of the things they taught was considering when you take a shot at an animal that it is well within your designated hunting area. Trespassing is trespassing is trespassing. Unless you have oral or written permission from the property owner you are not allowed to trespass, even if you have wounded an animal and it is suffering. Honestly, if you have to chase a wounded dog down with a truck it is probably not fatally wounded at that point.

Shooting a dog that is not on your property is a felony in the state of Kansas. It is prosecuting that is going to be the pickle in this situation.

Unfortunately, I believe in the State of Kansas, a person has the right to walk onto someone else's land to put an animal they have shot out of it's misery. (which is what the second shot definitely sounds like. )
In Kansas, a dog trespassing on to your property and even the hint of danger to livestock is enough to shoot it. (and I am sure the goats are not used to the dog, so they ran from it... that would be enough to hint that the dog might be after them. (even though you know your dog wouldn't do it, he doesn't.))
Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of places to turn to unless you can find proof that this all occurred on your neighbor's property, and not just ended there.


You need to see if there is a blood trail? (either ask a GOOD hunter friend (who actually knows how to track, not just someone who shoots), or call your local fish and game office and see if they would be able to help you.) You are going to need to establish whether your dog was off the property and they just came on the property to place the second shot, or if the dog never was off the property.

YOU cant really press charges for much of anything... Dogs are considered property and no matter what their job description was they are still not allowed to wander off property.
HOWEVER, If your neighbor is a good friend and will help you out by stating on record your dog was allowed on the property, you then might be able to get who ever did it for destruction of property, and she could get them for trespassing.


Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of places to turn to unless you can find proof that this all occurred on your neighbor's property, and not just ended there.

Danz- I talked to DH and of course there are not very good options. In Maine where I grew up animal control (which is part of the police department) is in charge of cases like this and they would investigate with back up from local or state authorities depending on the seriousness of the charge. The state animal control officer would be called in and animal cruelty charges would be pressed if it could be proven that the dog was not on his property when it was killed (which it doesn't sound like it was unless he drove the dog off?!)

Anyway, DH recommended having a necropsy done on Cloud so you could have a report of what kind of weapon was used and proof of cause of death. If you can get her body to K State they will do it for free. He also said you should contact the sheriff and your county prosecutor with information about the case and the link between animal cruelty and other dangerous behavior that people can get into. There are lots of good articles about the connection between killing an animal and eventually harming another person. It isn't much but it might be worth a try.

If this were a case where the property owner shot and killed a dog that in their mind was harassing their livestock then I could see that but this is disturbing to me to know you have a neighbor (or someone) who thinks it is ok to chase a dog down in their truck (on a neighbors property!) and shoot it. I would be concerned about the poor judgement this individual made and that is why I would push to do all you can.

Such a total waste of a good dog.

 

[fromKansas]

this should be helpful because this is the kansas law information and it seems if the person says the dog was hurting or scaring their animals they would have the right to shoot any animal anywhere, http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_47/Article_6/#47-646 this might be bad news for you sorry,maybe you can find in the statues the law that would say they cant shoot a dog roaming

 

[fromKansas]

i questioned the law and also found this on a page. maybe just try to keep your other dogs on your property so nobody else gets shot. im sorry your dog was killed. this is what i also found---

A dog is not, however, necessarily safe as soon as it leaves the farmer's property. In general, a farmer who wants retaliation is allowed to pursue a dog for a "reasonable time." What is a reasonable time under the circumstances is a question that's resolved when the lawsuit gets to court.
For example, a Kansas jury vindicated a farmer who shot and wounded a dog he found attacking his hogs. He shot at the dog, but it ran away, with the farmer in hot pursuit in his pickup. The dog ran home, where the farmer shot it twice and left it hiding, wounded, under the house. When the dog's owner came home, he rushed the dog to a veterinarian; it eventually recovered. The owner sued for almost $8,000, but the jury came back with a verdict for the farmer. (McDonald v. Bauman, 433 P.2d 437 (1967).)

 

[HEChicken]

I don't know where your pic went! It is strange, the way his back arches up isn't it? I was thinking it was more like a cushion of feathers but he definitely has an arched back. Didn't you get a pair? Does the hen look the same way? I wonder where that came from....did he talk about what else he had used for breeding to get a good meat bird? Just curious....

Yes, the hen is the same. I will try to get pics of her tomorrow! No, he didn't talk about his meat breeding program per se other than generalizations about what makes a good meat bird.

After many hours the techs finally got my computer up. Man what a mess. I HAD norton anti-virus, and thougt I was protected. I did not know that this malware is "smarter than norton" and got thru to my machine. Long story short. I know have a clean machine, learned a whole lot, and now am running a full life time version of malewarebytes. They also cleaned up some junk that was left over stuff and when just did everthing that needed to be done.

I second the use of malwarebytes. It is an excellent program that I run on a regular basis. Glad you are up and running again!

Shooting a dog that is not on your property is a felony in the state of Kansas. It is prosecuting that is going to be the pickle in this situation.
If this were a case where the property owner shot and killed a dog that in their mind was harassing their livestock then I could see that but this is disturbing to me to know you have a neighbor (or someone) who thinks it is ok to chase a dog down in their truck (on a neighbors property!) and shoot it. I would be concerned about the poor judgement this individual made and that is why I would push to do all you can.

Such a total waste of a good dog.

x2

this should be helpful because this is the kansas law information and it seems if the person says the dog was hurting or scaring their animals they would have the right to shoot any animal anywhere, http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_47/Article_6/#47-646 this might be bad news for you sorry,maybe you can find in the statues the law that would say they cant shoot a dog roaming

I read that statute but it doesn't pertain to this case since Cloud was not hurting or scaring livestock.

i questioned the law and also found this on a page. maybe just try to keep your other dogs on your property so nobody else gets shot. im sorry your dog was killed. this is what i also found---

A dog is not, however, necessarily safe as soon as it leaves the farmer's property. In general, a farmer who wants retaliation is allowed to pursue a dog for a "reasonable time." What is a reasonable time under the circumstances is a question that's resolved when the lawsuit gets to court.
For example, a Kansas jury vindicated a farmer who shot and wounded a dog he found attacking his hogs. He shot at the dog, but it ran away, with the farmer in hot pursuit in his pickup. The dog ran home, where the farmer shot it twice and left it hiding, wounded, under the house. When the dog's owner came home, he rushed the dog to a veterinarian; it eventually recovered. The owner sued for almost $8,000, but the jury came back with a verdict for the farmer. (McDonald v. Bauman, 433 P.2d 437 (1967).)

This is not pertinent in this case. Cloud was not attacking any livestock.

 

[chicken danz]

Please read the edit I made to the above post. More clarity on the matter.
fromKansas, this doesn't imply at all. You obviously don't understand the nature of these dogs. I can't say anything about what kind of dogs you have, but mine are not that way. There are literally tons of people who have met my dogs and live in this area that know these dogs and what they do. There is no way on God's earth these dogs would ever attack a farm animal or chase them or anything of the like. They guard birds for heaven sake! Those kind of dogs don't go out chasing livestock....deer maybe if they get too close....but they don't belong and they know it. And they have been around livestock each summer in the back pasture of this farm when it is rented. They know the difference between domestic animals and wild animals.
I am retired. I do not have the finances to fence in my property to keep my dogs here and I am certainly not going to limit them to my 'yard' area. I am glad that you have the financial means to do such things but it would cost my entire yearly income to do so.
My dog was brutally chased down and killed and your responses to the matter are quite frankly upsetting. Do you suggest I pen them up so they can't do the job they are here for??? I served as a law enforcement officer in Oklahoma City for 11 years and actually ran the Animal Control division my final two years down there. I am very adamant about people keeping their dogs contained on city property and being responsible pet owners. I also would not have a Great Pyrenees if I lived in town and didn't have the proper setting for them. I live 10 miles from the nearest town and a half mile from the nearest neighbor. I shouldn't have to be concerned about my dogs working their area to protect my birds and any other livestock I have here.
Josie when the sheriff was out here he confirmed the caliber and the cause of death. COD was obvious when she was shot in the top of her head from a fairly close distance and needless to say the trauma from it. We did bury her yesterday but it should all be in the sheriff's report. DH took some pictures as well but I think they were more of the scene and not her actual injuries. She was laying on the side that was shot when he found her. I really appreciate you and Tim taking the time to find out what you could.
I'm afraid judging from the sheriff's officer, although empathetic that proving this person actually did it other than hearsay would be close to impossible, even if he admits to another person he did it. I might prove his truck was on the scene but he could say he pulled in there to turn around or something. They aren't going to use the means they would if it were a person who got injured. I agree a person that can do this kind of thing is sick and a danger. I find myself wondering what else he could be capable of.
I am trying to convince myself that feeling angry over this won't bring my girl back. I hope the guy is loosing as much sleep wondering if he will get in trouble as I am because of his actions.
I am just sick.
To top this off my ghetto pen all of sudden is full of very sick birds. Started out with a couple of sneezes two days ago and I used vetRx. But today gobs of my birds are really really sick. I started denaguard but even so I lost one gal this evening. I have thousands of dollars invested in the birds in that pen. They are all my future breeders.. some expensive and some for egg laying. After selling my others last week if I loose those I am pretty much out of the bird business. That pen is so close in proximity to other pens it could also spread like crazy. Makes me second guess my desire for a poultry building. What if you got something like that and it spread throughout the building? I have had all the doors and windows open on that for days so it's not like they were confined in a small area with no other air. I am really worried. I certainly didn't need this right now.

 

[fromKansas]

is every body happy with the warm weather. are you in the path of the storms coming? kansas is new for us and this is the 3rd year here.

 

[Trish44]

Danz, I'm so sorry your birds are sick too on top of everything else. I hope the antibiotic kicks in & gets rid of what they have. If it's the same thing as my birds had I lost the sickest birds the first two days & then the rest had time to get the antibiotic & it seemed to kick it. I did use two different ones in the end, Denaguard & Tylan. My thoughts & prayers are with you today.

 

[HEChicken]

Danz, I'm so sorry your birds are sick too on top of everything else. I hope the antibiotic kicks in & gets rid of what they have. If it's the same thing as my birds had I lost the sickest birds the first two days & then the rest had time to get the antibiotic & it seemed to kick it. I did use two different ones in the end, Denaguard & Tylan. My thoughts & prayers are with you today.

x2. Danz, you've had enough to deal with lately - I really hope you see a fast response to the meds.

 

[chicken danz]

This is a weird sickness. It hit so fast from a couple of sneezes to a whole pen of really really sick birds. If it is a virus it surely kills them before an actual infection can set it. I just hope the denagard works. The only tylan and baytril I have is injectable. Since there are so many birds out there I decided this was the only thing to try immediately. The worst part is even getting them to drink. Many of the sick ones are just sitting there. I picked some of the worst ones up and ducked their beaks. I put a humidifier in the trailer with oxine in it and camphor in the medication chamber late last night hoping it would help, but probably half of the birds are sleeping on the tongue or under the trailer since it warmed up. I sure hope I don't go out to a bunch of dead birds today. I think I am going to extend the pen to give it another 100 square feet today and try to encourage them to spread out more and get out in the sunshine if we get any. I also plan to remove all the shavings and spray the thing down with oxine in hopes I can kill more of the virus. Looks like I'll be very busy. I just hope it doesn't rain while I am trying to get that done.
I meant to tell you amongst all the other stuff going on, that none of that one group of Sebbies hatched. These were eggs I had gotten from a friend. I did however have 2 of my own eggs hatch day before yesterday when all the hubub was going on. They are doing great. I have a couple more due to hatch tomorrow. I haven't candled so I don't know if they are fertile or not though. So far fertility has been good. I still haven't taken the eggs from the two girls that are sitting. It almost seems cruel. But I really do need to do so and give them some duck eggs or something to try along with maybe one or two of their own.
I didn't get to settle in last evening and I missed the weather but it sure looks gloomy out there this morning.
My exhibition orps spent their first night in the hoop coop. DH said he saw a couple of girls sitting outside the house part early on in the evening. I have 2 more roosters from a different line and one pullet in the ghetto trailer that weren't quite old enough to go in with the older ones yet. I do hope they don't get sick. This one rooster looks like he is going to be the biggest bird of all of them and I wanted to use him for my main breeder when he gets old enough.

 

[cubbysan]

Where in the east coast are you from? I lived 40+ years out east before coming to Kansas. Born and raised in the DC area, moved to NY - lived in NJ for awhile.. my dad is from Maine and I spent almost every summer up there for so many years. I get really homesick in the Fall.

We are from the Boston suburbs. I love it out here. My husband is having a hard time adjusting. He also misses the trips to NH that we would take and fishing in RI. There is no way we could have ever been able to afford acreage where we lived before.