Duck bumblefoot surgery help - large bumble

[Launchpad]

Blanche is a 9 month old silver Appleyard (a big one; the only duck i have larger is my big male Pekin)
While dealing with another ducks possible foot issue, i had neglected checking the feet of the four youngest four maybe 3 or 4 weekd as they've never had problem and i wasnt worried.
Enter Blanche, and the worst bumblefoot I've had to deal with. Not sure how it grew so fast
The Left foot is far worse than the right



I think it looks terrible but after reading a bunch of threads i think it is treatable.
I can also, if necessary, take her to the vet for antibiotics/surgery but that can get very expensive for us at the moment.
Or we can attempt the surgery ourselves.

This picture is about 10 days old; since then she has been having nightly soaks in warm water with chlorhexadine. Then iodine is squirted on the wounds followed by neosporin/epsom salt salve. Then bandaid to hold the ointment in place and finally the duck shoes.

The tissue has become very soft but is still firmly in place.
The biggest issue is the initial removal of the scab. How do we remove the scab without hurting the duck and not going too deep? My initial thought is tweezers and a razor blade but am hesitatant
Also, she is pretty calm during treatment with some thrashing but have no idea what to expect if the surgery is done... how to keep her calm?

And, to make sure i get the process right, after removal of scab we would remove all necrotic tissue and (what im assuming) white pus/chunks, fill it with ointment, bandage, then duck shoes. Followed by daily changes of the bandage/reapply ointment and shoes. And of course no swimming and limited movement/isolation.

I've also successfully used icathamol/drawingb salve, but never in one this size. And since that takes a while to work, I'm worried it would be too long when this seems it needs to be done sooner than later.

Also, what antibiotocs are recommended from tractor supply or wherever

As always, any and all thoughts/ help is appreciated.

 

[CoriM]

Yeah, those are two pretty big bumbles. Sounds like you're on the right track and have done your research. Pull whatever you can from the scabs and pack with triple antibiotic ointment, bandage with a gazue pad and vet wrap, keep out of water for a couple of days, then when it's scabbed over allow your bird a swim and start over. It might take several months to heal. I dealt with a similar one on a pekin and here is the thread I started back then: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/should-i-pull-this-scab-off.1415545/

 

[Launchpad]

Yeah, those are two pretty big bumbles. Sounds like you're on the right track and have done your research. Pull whatever you can from the scabs and pack with triple antibiotic ointment, bandage with a gazue pad and vet wrap, keep out of water for a couple of days, then when it's scabbed over allow your bird a swim and start over. It might take several months to heal. I dealt with a similar one on a pekin and here is the thread I started back then: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/should-i-pull-this-scab-off.1415545/

Awesome. My thanks
I guess it's like a bandaid, just gotta get on with it and start the healing

 

[Launchpad]

Bumping this for a antibiotics question

Should we go get baytril or cephalexin (or whatever is recommended/available) and administrator it no matter what.
We will be doing the surgery this evening

She lays her eggs with 3 others all sharing the same nest... are any antibiotics safe for egg consumption with no waiting period? Or, aiming give her antibiotics, sequester her at night so we know which eggs are hers so we can compost them for a month after the last dose?
Thanks again for any and all help

 

[CoriM]

It's up to you on the antibiotics. I've only used it a couple times for bumblefoot and I wasn't sure that it made any difference. It might also depend on how invasive your surgery procedure is. I would start with just gently pulling whatever areas come off after soaking in epsom salt water, and cutting only if necessary. If you do use antibiotics you will have to give a full round and continue pulling eggs for a 10-14 days afterwards. It's a hassle. I used baytril.

 

[Launchpad]

It's up to you on the antibiotics. I've only used it a couple times for bumblefoot and I wasn't sure that it made any difference. It might also depend on how invasive your surgery procedure is. I would start with just gently pulling whatever areas come off after soaking in epsom salt water, and cutting only if necessary. If you do use antibiotics you will have to give a full round and continue pulling eggs for a 10-14 days afterwards. It's a hassle. I used baytril.

Gotcha

 

[Launchpad]

Post-initital surgery update/questions
Help definitely appreciated on this

Venue beginning, she soaked in very warm water with epsom salts and chlorhexadine for almost an hour to really soften it up.
Was able to remove almost, if not all, of the convering black scab. There was definitely some hardened white chunks attached to it and some underneath.
Here is where the major question comes in:
Is all this rissue underneath a giant plug of infection or is it healthy tissue not to be removed.
It felt firm, but still squishy. The top looks white in places, and it was almost like it could be crumbled off in the bottom part (of the pictures; it would technically be the right side).
I made a very small incision (the only inclusion made) directly in the middle to get a look; the tissue underneath looked pink to me so i did nothing further but remove as much of the scab attached to the healthy flesh on the rim. There was a decent amount of blood during the surgery.
Blanche (the patient) only showed real discomfort while i was cleaning out the edges on the rim of the wound.
Here are the best pictures I could get


***GRAPHIC IF SQUEAMISH***
.
.
.






Does it look like that's just healthy tissue underneath and not a giant plug of infection? It is mostly pink. If you see the tiny incision in the middle, the flesh inside was pink to my eyes. And was squishy firm, not hard.
Im guessing some of that white could be infection pieces but could also be fat? Again, not extremely hard.

After that last picture, i wiped the wound with a heavy dose of iodine. Then a a bunch of antibiotic ointment. Gauze pad over it all held in place with bandaids. Finally, the duck shoe held into place with some self-adhering tape.

Blanche never seemed truly uncomfortable at all during the entire hour. Afterwards, she was put in the kerlnnel for this first night and immediately gorged on some peas and water.

Tomorrow we will do the other foot which is not a bad.
Im hoping this for is basically done but if i am wrong and that all is a giant plug we will resume that first.

I appreciate all the help and advice that has gotten us thus far.
And any further insights/ advice/ thoughts on this would be most welcome

 

[Miss Lydia]

I would leave that alone now and let it heal, That looks like healthy tissue.

Give it a few days they check again to make sure you got all the infection out. Keep it covered and no swimming but soaking in warm Epsom salt should help with healing. Or do you have the Epsom salt gel you could use it over the wound then cover.

 

[Launchpad]

I would leave that alone now and let it heal, That looks like healthy tissue.

Give it a few days they check again to make sure you got all the infection out. Keep it covered and no swimming but soaking in warm Epsom salt should help with healing. Or do you have the Epsom salt gel you could use it over the wound then cover.

Yes good that's what i wanted to hear to hear as it's what i thought. Its a big area but since it can't be a more than a few weeks old im guessing/hoping it just hasn't formed much in depth.
I do have the gel and i will be using it; though i need to do her other foot which should be similar though much smaller. I was thinking of soaking it this one time just so i could get out all nice and soft... maybe i could soak just the one foot we'll be working on. Might have to soak both but i will be using the gel and antibiotic ointment primarily

 

[Miss Lydia]

It won't hurt to do both in Epsom salt water that will help with healing. Once you get the other done keep covered and then check say every couple days to see how they are looking, You'll most likely have to change the bandage anyway every couple days.