Entire flock severely bullying each other

[Wrenshensffe]

I’m at a complete loss.
(Back story- spring 21. my first flock came from TSC as chicks. I had 22 hens and 2 large pekin ducks in the same coop and same run prior to this flock and they living in harmony with no issues and we’re generally pretty friendly to humans. They were all killed by a mink in one night over winter so we rebuilt the run with the same dementions 100% predator proofed.
Issue:
My new chicks were shipped to me by a local hatchery here in Michigan in spring of 22– I handled them (not as often as the first) but this flock is INSANELY afraid of humans. They will come to me for food, but won’t let me touch or catch them.
In the fall of 22 I noticed some of my hens started losing some feathers and looking a little rougher than normal near their vents, underneath the vent, and around the base of their tail. I researched and read that they could be molting even though it would be very early for a first molt. I also checked for mites and lice several times over the winter, even with a microscope and still saw no evidence, yet they kept getting worse and worse. I provided scratch in their run everyday, vegetable table scraps (not excessively), eventually they started looking completely bare on their butts with bright red skin. No vent gleet/messy butts. Some hens look so bad that the red bare skin goes all the way up to the tail/preening gland. I researched for months and nothing made sense. I gutted the coop snd treated with elector psp just to see if that made a difference. Nothing.. finally last night I found an old article explaining feather picking and what could have caused them to begin this behavior . Everything I read prior only stated information about a single bully hen or the whole flock on one specific hen. In my case by this time, every single one of my hens is missing at least some or all fluff, and several on their backs now. I have 3 out of 15 that don’t look super rough, but are still missing fluff, some back feathers, and are red. It dawned on me I must have missed the beginning bully hen to begin with, and they all learned the behavior and are now ravaging each other. (No, no roosters). I tried blue food coloring with No Pick to cover the red and that did nothing. I increased protein, nothing. They’ve always been on Kalmbach layer pellets (starter before 18 weeks). Added vitamin supplements. I bought a tractor to let them range in the grass, nothing. Hens with bare preening glands are excessively tugging and rubbing on themselves, causing the glands to swell.

I’m starting to wonder if this issue can even be solved. I can’t seperate all 15 hens to reset pecking order. They haven’t turned canibalistic yet, but I’m afraid we’re not far behind that. Today I watched some hens jump on the backs of others and aggressively bite their neck while the other bird squaks in fear. Our hatched chicks outgrew their brooder at 12 weeks and are in the coop separated from the flock until we move in July where I planned on taking my hens with me. But now I’m starting to wonder to even do to correct this issue before releasing the younger ones in with the big hens. At the rate of damage the original flock are doing to themselves, my babies will be killed or severely injured. I don’t want to cull my old flock and start over.. but I’m losing hope.
**pic for attention (before it started to all go wrong)**

 

[aart]

How big are the coop and run, in feet by feet?
Are all the birds females?

 

[Mrs. K]

I am assuming that you have 15 chickens this time too? And I think you are making the reasonable assumption that as the first flock fit into the coop with harmony, that this flock should too. This rather illustrates that number of birds is not an exact count in a coop/run. It is highly influenced by the birds themselves. A question: how old were the birds when you got wiped out? If they were just near full size, they may have had problems develop as they got bigger. AArts question as to actual size is pertinent, as size and set up really can cause these very problems.

A couple of things you could try that might help:

• pin less peepers - this should stop the feather eating
• clutter and hide outs, roosts in the run - some runs are just a bare open rectangle and there is no place to get out of sight of birds
• even though the first flock fit in the coop, I would remove several of the hens. Some people eat them, some sell them, some just euthanize them. To be honest they are not having that great of a life all beat up
• I would be very hesitant of adding new birds to this flock.

Mrs K

 

[Wrenshensffe]

How big are the coop and run, in feet by feet?
Are all the birds females?

Run is 16x5 the coop is 16x12. Their new coop will be 12x10 and will be in a fenced pasture about 1200sqft when we move. We couldn’t make the run any bigger since we used the old foundation to build off of, I added a daytime extension to the run that is 9.9x6.5. Birds are 100% all females, though I’m adding a roo or two that was apart of my hatch once we move up (12-13 weeks old now). Again, my prior flock had 7 more hens and two large ducks living in just the coop and attached run and never had any issues. But different hatcheries, different lines.

 

[Wrenshensffe]

Pictures below of original space before tractor extension

 

[Wrenshensffe]

I am assuming that you have 15 chickens this time too? And I think you are making the reasonable assumption that as the first flock fit into the coop with harmony, that this flock should too. This rather illustrates that number of birds is not an exact count in a coop/run. It is highly influenced by the birds themselves. A question: how old were the birds when you got wiped out? If they were just near full size, they may have had problems develop as they got bigger. AArts question as to actual size is pertinent, as size and set up really can cause these very problems.

A couple of things you could try that might help:

• pin less peepers - this should stop the feather eating
• clutter and hide outs, roosts in the run - some runs are just a bare open rectangle and there is no place to get out of sight of birds
• even though the first flock fit in the coop, I would remove several of the hens. Some people eat them, some sell them, some just euthanize them. To be honest they are not having that great of a life all beat up
• I would be very hesitant of adding new birds to this flock.

Mrs K

Thanks for the ideas! Before I had 22 hens and two large ducks in just the coop and original run without the extension.
My previous flock got wiped when they were 9 months old in December 21’.
This flock is 15 hens not including my additional 5 I am adding when I move to a bigger space. Issues started in September when they were 6 months old.

 

[Mrs. K]

Well the hens don't look badly pecked to me? The run in that picture is very small, but the coop seems large enough.

The thing about rules such as square feet per chicken, is the birds have not read the book. If it is not working - you need to try something else. I would order the peepers - as you are moving into new digs soon. The peepers might get you some time. A lot of people swear by them.

Other than that - you might reduce your flock size - this can be an ugly habit to get rid of.

Mrs K

 

[Geena]

I provided scratch in their run everyday, vegetable table scraps (not excessively), eventually they started looking completely bare on their butts with bright red skin.

What are they getting as their main diet? I would up their protein and cut out any extras, particularly the scratch.
Unfortunately sometimes bad habits like egg eating and feather picking can start with just one bird, then spread throughout the flock, particularly in a tight set up.
It can be much more difficult to change their behavior once it becomes widespread and everyday like that.
I would do as @Mrs. K suggested and remove the likely suspects first and see if anything changes.
What works fine for one flock won't necessarily work well for the next flock, different birds, can bring different attitudes and issues. I'm growing out a group of chickens right now in the exact same coop, same numbers, same everything as I have probably 20 times before. But these suckers WILL NOT coop up at night. I have to go out every evening and coax them all in, for about 6 WEEKS NOW! I have no clue why, it just is what it is, silly birds.

ETA - Actually I do know exactly how it started, with just one too big for his britches cockerel who didn't want to go in at night. What I don't know is why it continues.

 

[Wrenshensffe]

Well the hens don't look badly pecked to me? The run in that picture is very small, but the coop seems large enough.

The thing about rules such as square feet per chicken, is the birds have not read the book. If it is not working - you need to try something else. I would order the peepers - as you are moving into new digs soon. The peepers might get you some time. A lot of people swear by them.

Other than that - you might reduce your flock size - this can be an ugly habit to get rid of.

Mrs K

With the coop and run combined, it’s 272sqft and they have access to both areas from sunrise to sunset and the coop is lit during the day as well so they can see. My husband and I talked about it and are going to try peepers on every bird, if it doesn’t resolve once we’re settled in our new space, we’re probably going to cull the worst culprits. I would love to give them away to a new home, but no one is going to want my birds with the way they look. The photo of them is from before issues started. I haven’t posted any recent ones because it breaks my heart they’re even going through this with everything I’ve tried within my means. I don’t want people to think I’m neglecting them since I’ve put so much time and money into trying to solve the issue. Thank you again for your help, it confirms what I was thinking next.

 

[Wrenshensffe]

What are they getting as their main diet? I would up their protein and cut out any extras, particularly the scratch.
Unfortunately sometimes bad habits like egg eating and feather picking can start with just one bird, then spread throughout the flock, particularly in a tight set up.
It can be much more difficult to change their behavior once it becomes widespread and everyday like that.
I would do as @Mrs. K suggested and remove the likely suspects first and see if anything changes.
What works fine for one flock won't necessarily work well for the next flock, different birds, can bring different attitudes and issues. I'm growing out a group of chickens right now in the exact same coop, same numbers, same everything as I have probably 20 times before. But these suckers WILL NOT coop up at night. I have to go out every evening and coax them all in, for about 6 WEEKS NOW! I have no clue why, it just is what it is, silly birds.

They haven’t had scratch since winter, I was giving it to them to keep them from being board and it didn’t help the boredom. I’ve upped their protein with kalmbach feather plume and it didn’t help and gave them diarrhea. Now I’m just adding catfood as a small treat here and there. They’ve always been on kalmbach layer pellets. Right I’m concerned that it’s too far past fixing at this point because I didn’t know what the issue was for so long and was just trying thing one at a time to see if it resolved. My run is small, but we couldn’t go much bigger due to ordinance, but once we rebuilt, the size run I have now was $1000 to rebuild to completely seal any access size down to 1/2inch. Even underground. Dang birds! I don’t want to give up on them but I’m also not rich. I’m hoping their new home will be what they need.