FERMENTED FEEDS...anyone using them?

[Beekissed]

Here's another consideration. If just a few birds have a problem and the rest of the flock are thriving, it's a bird problem and not a flock problem. A bird problem is best solved by culling the birds. As LG mentioned, usually an absorption problem is just a symptom of more severe and underlying genetic problems and the birds usually aren't good for much down the road anyway.

 

[Jensownzoo]

Botulism grows in environments that don't have oxygen (which is why it is a concern in contaminated canned goods. The method you're using to ferment the feed would not tend to allow that to happen.

There are many potential causes of wry neck, but one of the ones we can do something about is the vitamin deficiency one that lazy gardener mentioned. I assume everyone is getting the same access to food/nutrients, so you may want to remove those two from your breeding program in case of genetic disposition. Also pay particular attention to the cross that produced them as that line may have a flaw.

 

[RubyNala97]

If they had botulism, they'd be dead.  Wry neck is a completely different issue.  From my understanding, silkies are a bit more prone to it.  Results from deficiency or possibly malabsorption (I lean more to thinking this to be the cause) of vitamins.  Some say B vits, others state that vit E and Selenium are the cause.  Try getting some Poultry Nutri-Drench into them ASAP.  I treated one chick with wry neck who was comatose with combination of Vit E, Selenium, and later adding ND, the chick made good recovery, but by the time I found issue and treated, internal damage had been done.  Chick had CHF, and severe scoliosis as he grew.  Personally, I'd keep the meal worms out of the mix.  Save them for treats.  Fermenting the feed, if anything will help prevent wry neck, IMO.

Good to know! I had two (1 went down hill fast and I put her down) the other one is improving a lot with the vitamins and antibiotics.

Here's another consideration.  If just a few birds have a problem and the rest of the flock are thriving, it's a bird problem and not a flock problem.   A bird problem is best solved by culling the birds.  As LG mentioned, usually an absorption problem is just a symptom of more severe and underlying genetic problems and the birds usually aren't good for much down the road anyway. 

Botulism grows in environments that don't have oxygen (which is why it is a concern in contaminated canned goods. The method you're using to ferment the feed would not tend to allow that to happen.

There are many potential causes of wry neck, but one of the ones we can do something about is the vitamin deficiency one that lazy gardener mentioned. I assume everyone is getting the same access to food/nutrients, so you may want to remove those two from your breeding program in case of genetic disposition. Also pay particular attention to the cross that produced them as that line may have a flaw.

Beekissed & Jen- thank you both for your feedback. One of the young girls is first generation off spring to my adults. But the funny thing is the second one is actually not a silkie but a D'Uccle that I hatched from eggs I won at a poultry show in January. So no genetic connection to each other. Hit them both around the same time frame. I was planning on selling the D'Uccle because she was just about to lay (her sisters started a few days before her) and then she got sick. So you guys think culling is the best thing? I'm glad to know its not the FF, everyone else is thriving but it was a thought in my mind that maybe I had contaminated them, since two different breeds came down sick the same time. I'm working hard on the one girl because I guess it's just my nature to try and fix her but 3 other people mentioned to me today that maybe I should cull.....5 people can't be wrong! Lol.

I greatly appreciate the input. I take it that I'm doing the FF ok then!!

 

[Beekissed]

One thing to consider with FF is that the minerals added to the feed can become unevenly distributed in a very wet mix of feed, wherein some float to the top and some sink to the bottom...most sink to the bottom. In a drier mix, one can stir the bucket each day and pretty much keep those minerals intermixed enough that they are evenly distributed and get fed out much like they would in dry, unfermented feeds. If this is happening, some of the flock may not be getting the full benefit of the supplements added to the feed mix that would insure a balanced ration and this could lead to some birds not getting what they need.

Just a theory but could be a possibility in your case. My flock free range and their feed is the supplement, so they get most of their dietary needs met out on pasture and the feed is just a nice topping to all of that, but flocks depending solely on their bagged feeds might not get the full benefit if the minerals are sinking to the bottom of the container of FF.

 

[lazy gardener]

That is part of the reason why I do the 2 bucket method. I mix a day's worth of feed in each bucket, so can alternate feeding out buckets. Always have a full bucket ready to go, in theory. In the summer when my flock size is up, I often use more than one bucket/day, but the stuff does get a good ferment head going just from sitting over night. Because the buckets get scraped out often, the mineral sludge doesn't get a chance to build up on the bottom. Also, IMO, it's easier for me to just grab a bucket and head to the coops with it. Quick dump, scrape, and done.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I am always thankful for what I learn here! And some people ( @Beekissed and some others ) seem to have a nice no nonsence clinical understanding of flock management. Much less over-emotional than a lot of us less experienced fanatics.

When I grow up I wanna be like that!

When I was using starter feed, I did notice a lot of heavier stuff like the grit at the bottom of the bucket. So I have witnessed the separation taking place and can see how some minerals may indeed settle.

Thank you all for another great learning day!

 

[Tikkijane]

Hello. I was wondering if you guys could give me some advice on my FF practices and if I'm doing it correctly? I recently had 2 young girls come down with wry neck symptoms and I began wondering if my FF could have given them botulism? It might not even be related but it got me thinking that maybe I should make sure I'm feeding my flock something beneficial and not slowly killing them!

I have a small flock of about 25 silkie chickens I use for breeding. Mixed ages and I always have dry crumble grower, oyster shell and grit available to them. I feed them 2 big bowls of FF once a day and they love it.

Here's what I'm doing:
I have a 5 gallon glass jar with a metal lid that I leave on lightly. I fill it about half way with grower crumbles and add 2 cups of home made scratch (wheat, corn, pumpkin seeds, boss, peanuts, hazelnuts, and dried mealworms). I cover the dry food with bottled spring water and stir a few times a day. It has a nice smell, like dough rising. I scoop out my two big bowls, leaving about an inch in the bottom and then add more dry ingredients and more water for the next day. I never fully wash out the glass jar, I just keep it going. I've been doing this for about a year and it seems to be working well, as the chickens run to the bowls when I put them down. I appreciate any advice on if my method is ok to keep doing or if I should do it differently. Thanks in advance!

Silkies are MUCH more prone to wry neck, often because of their vaulted skulls. There's a really good thread here on wry neck, if that helps. I'll paste in my link in my next post. Your FF should not have anything to do with wry neck.

 

[Tikkijane]

Silkies are MUCH more prone to wry neck, often because of their vaulted skulls. There's a really good thread here on wry neck, if that helps. I'll paste in my link in my next post. Your FF should not have anything to do with wry neck.

https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2013/05/03/its-broken/

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/97121/lets-talk-wry-neck-crook-neck/240#post_17291875

 

[Tikkijane]

Good to know! I had two (1 went down hill fast and I put her down) the other one is improving a lot with the vitamins and antibiotics.

Beekissed & Jen- thank you both for your feedback. One of the young girls is first generation off spring to my adults. But the funny thing is the second one is actually not a silkie but a D'Uccle that I hatched from eggs I won at a poultry show in January. So no genetic connection to each other. Hit them both around the same time frame. I was planning on selling the D'Uccle because she was just about to lay (her sisters started a few days before her) and then she got sick. So you guys think culling is the best thing? I'm glad to know its not the FF, everyone else is thriving but it was a thought in my mind that maybe I had contaminated them, since two different breeds came down sick the same time. I'm working hard on the one girl because I guess it's just my nature to try and fix her but 3 other people mentioned to me today that maybe I should cull.....5 people can't be wrong! Lol.

I greatly appreciate the input. I take it that I'm doing the FF ok then!!

I think it depends on what you want. If you are breeding for showing; prolly cull {which doesn't mean kill- I'd give them a chance to get fixed and then rehome}. If they are just for your pleasure, I'd try to fix them first, at least giving them a chance. Vitamins are easy.

 

[Jensownzoo]

Yup, what Tikki said. You can rehome or keep but not use for breeding. Up to you. Both Silkies and d'Uccles make lovely pets.