Freedom Ranger Vs. Heritage Breeds

[GreatBreeder]

 

[JRNash]

The only time hybrid vigor will fall off is when the birds become more related. Don't know the long haired hippy word for it

From my experience with Sasso (Label Rouge imports from France) I have to disagree with you.
I have the utmost respect for anyone breeding heritage breeds, trying to improve there stock, making it accessible to others and taking excess for the table.
But if they were better than the broiler hybrid types the later just wouldn't exist.

My Sasso's are now a second generation breeding flock, the Roosters are 2kg dressed weight at 14 weeks with a large meat yield, the Pullets are laying machines, they start laying at 18 weeks, lay huge eggs and keep going right through the winter.
No heritage breed can touch that.
They also make a very good addition when crossed with heritage breeds.
There only down side is they only last a year then begin to deteriorate, but you breed new stock and when they start laying, cull last years birds out.

But I'm no anti heritage breeder, I love my Cornish and Marans and ex breeder of La Bresse and like to think I have quality stock, but they can't get anywhere near the Sasso's.

But it won't stop me breeding the heritage.

Dave my Slow Grow CX were also excellent layers.

 

[JRNash]

I will continue with hybrids for my egg layers. I am going to start working toward the SOP for some of my heritage birds also.

 

[ZachyWachy]

So, is anyone going to do the experiment themselves? Leghorn with cornish? When I eventually get cornish(it might take until I have my own place) then I definitely want to try it out and see for myself.

 

[GreatBreeder]

So, is anyone going to do the experiment themselves? Leghorn with cornish? When I eventually get cornish(it might take until I have my own place) then I definitely want to try it out and see for myself.

Try with just Cornish Rocks and Hybrid Leghorns like Lohmann's, Hyline, and Babcock.

 

[ZachyWachy]

I will roger that, but as I said, I will most likely have to get my own place first; so look at about 10 years or so? Unless I'm lucky.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

Okay... disclaimer I do not breed yet... however I have been researching and there is away to retain vigor with "pure" birds based on my nosing around on chicken breeding for various uses, you do it be maintaining a minimum of 2 lines of birds not closely related birds of the same breed (of course more lines of said breed are better) now these breeder lines you keep as closed genetic pools as much as possible (there are various schools of best practices on this, but a form of back breeding is usually used from what I can tell), cull heavy and keep only best examples for continued breeding (the back breeding also allows you to determine recessive genes, get sports and even create closed lines from such sports)... then you cross the lines to get the f1 crosses of the pure breed for your purposes... the traits you want, SoP SQ, behavioral traits, meat, feather or eggs... the trick is to maintain healthy and gradually improving closed genetic pools that allow you to put the best of A line with B line to get a superior C, now you can try to create C line using the same methods of choosing the best Cs, breeding only those birds to each other to see if you can retain C lines but C lines do not often produce the superior traits right away. You can of course do this with different breeds, so lets say you like Cornish NN cross for meat bird... you would be keeping probably closed pure breeder lines, Cornish & NN to always have good breeding stock than you cross those to produce your main dinner birds all destined for the table. You can create sub-lines within the main lines as well.

Now the big thing I can tell that people consistently say they mess up is getting impatient with what ever breeding scheme they chose for their lines and then adding outside blood and messing up the traits they wanted or flip flopping between systems of breeding. So this is not a fast thing... you got to use a breeding system that allows you to discover your breeding stock's DNA, once you got that sorted and consistent then you start your serious crossing experiments or start a new line by adding new blood that you use to create a new pool of breeding stock slightly different than your other lines.

The big thing is picking your system you feel comfortable with... I am no were ready to discuss all the different breeding plans especially since I don't breed... but stage one is always figuring out what genetics you have at the start.

Anyway that is what I have been able to figure out across the various breeds for every purpose.

So just armchair theory/opinion.

 

[GreatBreeder]

True true. Vigor can be obtained in many ways, but I'm specifying HYBRID vigor. That occurs from crossing two outside breeds. You'd get more from crossing a White Cornish to a White Rock than a White Cornish to a Dark Cornish.

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

True true. Vigor can be obtained in many ways, but I'm specifying HYBRID vigor. That occurs from crossing two outside breeds. You'd get more from crossing a White Cornish to a White Rock than a White Cornish to a Dark Cornish.

Well sure but also if you plan to do the sustainable thing than you still have to set up genetic pools for the two or more breeds you want to cross on a regular basis. Record keeping becomes important in the breeding stock.

Also there does seem to be two strongly held opinions in the animal breeding schools of thought on hybrid vs pure bred concerning vigor, health and strength of desirable traits. I am really not choosing a side on this, but I do think no matter what one prefers selection of healthy vigorous breeding stock and knowing what is lurking in the DNA of the birds you breed is the only way to be sure of consistent results.

Testing breeding stock maybe more important than some folks realize but it can be time consuming, some breeds need to mature fully or even be isolated from the opposite sex for years to determine their genetics before breeding and then the same must be done with offspring. Some things you can only see well in one gender but not the other, or might be recessive, you may want or not want these traits. I have observed people accidentally breeding out traits (rather quickly) they wanted or worse add through out their whole breeding flock a lethal or a highly undesirable trait they did not want because they failed to determine the genetics of their breeding stock.

 

[ZachyWachy]

Ouch! I can't even finish reading all those long breeding ideas/facts. I will if I think I will get the chance to use them soon, otherwise, it's not worth the headache! Wish I could keep up though.