Have I finally found good feed??

[ChickenShepherd_6116]

Yes. I think the S&P starter is somewhere around 20% CP and is at the level of most good all flock formulas. At that level you don't need to increase protein, but can still offer good quality (animal) protein as a treat in moderation. That would be the best choice, honestly you don't need layer feed.

I have decided to go with the 16% layer pellets and just integrate my chicks when they start laying. My intuition says, if I give them table scraps and scrambled eggs every so often, it will be fine. Thank you for your tips, I appreciate really it. I just can't find S&P Starter food for the same price, or lower, than the Layer Pellets, and they are already expensive.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I have decided to go with the 16% layer pellets and just integrate my chicks when they start laying. My intuition says, if I give them table scraps and scrambled eggs every so often, it will be fine. Thank you for your tips, I appreciate really it. I just can't find S&P Starter food for the same price, or lower, than the Layer Pellets, and they are already expensive.

Protein is Expensive. Good quality and Dense protein sources tend to be more expensive still. Even poor quality non-GMO and Organic sources tend to be more expensive than that, and high quality Organic, more so.

Very reasonable to consider cost as one of of the tradeoffs to balance when selecting feed for your birds. Nothing to apologize for/No need to explain it away. Its rational, responsible behavior.

 

[Sic]

Protein is Expensive. Good quality and Dense protein sources tend to be more expensive still. Even poor quality non-GMO and Organic sources tend to be more expensive than that, and high quality Organic, more so.

Very reasonable to consider cost as one of of the tradeoffs to balance when selecting feed for your birds. Nothing to apologize for/No need to explain it away. Its rational, responsible behavior.

This. Advice and opinions here are given freely. Make your decisions on what suits you. Glad you were able to come to a decision on feed. Good luck.

 

[NorthwoodsChick]

I think the S&P starter is somewhere around 20% CP and is at the level of most good all flock formulas. At that level you don't need to increase protein, but can still offer good quality (animal) protein as a treat in moderation.

This may be a dumb question after the discussion on fat%, but I’m curious.
Is there any commercial feed that uses more animal based protein rather than plant based?

 

[ChickenShepherd_6116]

This may be a dumb question after the discussion on fat%, but I’m curious.
Is there any commercial feed that uses more animal based protein rather than plant based?

Scratch & Peck layer pellet (16% protein) uses some animal protein. Hope this helps!

INGREDIENTS:
organic wheat, organic peas, organic flaxseed meal, organic barley, ground limestone, black soldier fly larvae, organic sunflower oil, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, organic dehydrated kelp meal, salt, dl-methionine, choline chloride, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, zinc sulfate, d-alpha-tocopheryl acetate, active dry yeast, hemicellulose extract, organic origanum oil, organic cinnamon bark oil, organic thyme oil, niacin supplement, selenium yeast, dried Trichoderma reesei fermentation product, copper sulfate, d-calcium panthothenate, vitamin a acetate, riboflavin supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, vitamin d3 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium iodate, folic acid, vitamin b-12 supplement, sodium selenite

 

[U_Stormcrow]

This may be a dumb question after the discussion on fat%, but I’m curious.
Is there any commercial feed that uses more animal based protein rather than plant based?

Not to my knowledge.

Grubbly is making their name by selling a "high non-plant protein product". Its number 3 on their list.

Somewhere between 10 and 12% of total weight, best guess.

Wheat, Peas, Dried Black Soldier Fly Larvae, Calcium Carbonate, Barley, Sunflower Hearts, Alfalfa Meal, Flaxseed, Oats, Molasses Products, Calcium Phosphate, Salt, Dl-Methionine, Rice Hulls, Dried Seaweed Meal, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Manganese Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Vitamin E Supplement, Brewers Dried Yeast, Marigold Extract, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product, Iron Proteinate, Yeast Culture, Niacin Supplement, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Selenium Yeast, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Extract, Calcium Pantothenate, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Mineral Oil, Copper Proteinate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source Of Vitamin K Activity), Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Ethylenediamine Dihydroiodide, Folic Acid, Biotin, Dried Bacillus Licheniformis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product

 

[Sic]

This may be a dumb question after the discussion on fat%, but I’m curious.
Is there any commercial feed that uses more animal based protein rather than plant based?

I don't believe so. Mazuri/Purina gamebird feeds do use some in the form of porcine meat and bone meal and fish meal, but their mainstay, as most commercial brands, is soybean meal. Garvo (NL) uses gammarus and shrimp in some of their premium feeds, (you don't see that used in the US) but again, plant proteins dominate. I love their alfachick starter though!
I think ingredients need to be accepted by AAFCO to be used here, BSF was added in 2018-19? I think, it may see more use over time, but it seems an uphill battle to move from vegetarian chicken feed to something more species appropriate and I don't think you will see animal protein products added aside from formulas that are soy and corn free. The higher cost of animal proteins, assuming here, may be a contributing factor to commercial feed production as well.

 

[FrostRanger]

I don't believe so. Mazuri/Purina gamebird feeds do use some in the form of porcine meat and bone meal and fish meal, but their mainstay, as most commercial brands, is soybean meal. Garvo (NL) uses gammarus and shrimp in some of their premium feeds, (you don't see that used in the US) but again, plant proteins dominate. I love their alfachick starter though!
I think ingredients need to be accepted by AAFCO to be used here, BSF was added in 2018-19? I think, it may see more use over time, but it seems an uphill battle to move from vegetarian chicken feed to something more species appropriate and I don't think you will see animal protein products added aside from formulas that are soy and corn free. The higher cost of animal proteins, assuming here, may be a contributing factor to commercial feed production as well.

In addition, any animal products in organic feed have to be organic too, and organic meat is particularly expensive, hence why many organic feeds don't include meat

I do wish more feeds included animal protein. Chickens are absolutely not herbivores. My girls go nuts for any kind of meat, especially shrimp shells and I pity the lizard or frog that wanders into their space. It saddens me to see that vegetarian fed hens is still touted as a positive by some brands, the only way things will change is by people becoming more educated on proper chicken nutrition

 

[ChaosMom]

Scratch & Peck layer pellet (16% protein) uses some animal protein. Hope this helps!

INGREDIENTS:
organic wheat, organic peas, organic flaxseed meal, organic barley, ground limestone, black soldier fly larvae, organic sunflower oil, monocalcium phosphate, dicalcium phosphate, organic dehydrated kelp meal, salt, dl-methionine, choline chloride, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, zinc sulfate, d-alpha-tocopheryl acetate, active dry yeast, hemicellulose extract, organic origanum oil, organic cinnamon bark oil, organic thyme oil, niacin supplement, selenium yeast, dried Trichoderma reesei fermentation product, copper sulfate, d-calcium panthothenate, vitamin a acetate, riboflavin supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, vitamin d3 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, calcium iodate, folic acid, vitamin b-12 supplement, sodium selenite

Presumably, ag feeds must follow the same rules as human food and list ingredients by weight, highest to lowest.

Peas and other legumes are the plant-based proteins in chicken feed. So if peas are listed before the BSFL, presumably they are the greater source of protein. (And grains supply protein as well.)

It's good to see insect protein listed that high up, though!

I have to say, maybe leave this one element out of your search for the Holy Grail of chicken feed. It's so easy to buy a can of sardines or some marked-down ground beef and supplement commercial feed that has everything else.

The drive for perfection is the enemy of acquiring the sufficiently good; something like that.

 

[saysfaa]

This may be a dumb question after the discussion on fat%, but I’m curious.
Is there any commercial feed that uses more animal based protein rather than plant based?

I've seen one. It was a local mix at an independent feed/supply store out in the middle of ag flyover country as I was traveling. I can't remember the name. I think it is more of an exception that proves the rule than anything helpful to most of us. Lol, the same place I saw bags of lime there because people around there are still whitewashing outbuildings.

Maybe it gives some hope that with enough support, it does happen.