I’m so confused HELP!!!!

[Debbie292d]

If your homemade feed is the same as the scratch, then you can use it as scratch (limited amount only), but you cannot use it for the main food and expect your chickens to be healthy.

There's the answer! The rest of Nat's post is so informative, but for your question, this is the answer I wish my head would have come up with in the beginning!

Kalmbach's Flock Maker is good feed. Use yours for the scratch and there you go!

 

[Shadrach]

I need some guidance here!!! So I wanted to make my chickens their own feed. I feed all flock kalmbach . And I also have scratch from kalmbach.
My confusion is this: the ingredients inside the scratch is almost EXACTLY the same as home made feed. Am I delusional or what is going on ? Any insight would be so welcomed

I agree, it can be very confusing, especially if one just looks at the the base componants in the various feeds.
Most are wheat based. With the wheat base one often finds higher crude protein base componants such as dried peas, soy products, fish meal (much rarer these days), even kelp and hemp.
What needs to be born in mind is the shortfalls in the amino acid profiles are compensated for by spraying the missing elements with laboratory produced vitamins, minerals, ash and fats, but more importantly, two amino acids, metheionine and lysin, during production.
While homemade feed may match or better the crude protein profile of the commercial feeds, it won't have the additives.

A better way to assess whether or not a homemade feed matches or betters the nutritional profile of a commercial feed is to look at the feed analysis/additives.

The next thing to be taken into consideration is the vast majority of commercially produced layer feeds are designed for commercial laying hens whose nutrient demands are very high in their first two years of laying; laying an egg a day places an awful strain on the bird and from what I've seen, very few of the homemade feeds will supply enough of what high production hens require to produce the maximum number of eggs and supply the own nutritional needs.

A good place to start when considering alternative feeds is the hen; is she a high production breed? How many eggs a year does she lay? (approx will do) How old is she?

The alternative feed advocates; I am one, may tell you they do it for the hens longterm health, or for as a cheaper feeding option, etc. To my knowledge, nobody has done a fair study over a long enough period to prove any of the alternative feed recipes extend the life of the bird, or even contribute to it's overall health.

My reasoning is if currrent science is right and the highly processed food many of us eat is shortening our average life span then htis probably applies to chicken feed as well and it doesn't come much more processed than commercial chicken feed.
I'm prepared to pay extra to feed the chickens I care for to provide them with what I understand from the science, is a healthier diet. I no longer care for any high production hens and I've learned a little about nutrition for chickens and they get out to forage every day for a couple of hours on winter vegetable plots, mixed grasses and orchard and compost.
All these factors need to be taken into account if one is to keep the chickens healthy and productive.

 

[Sic]

This recipe isn't anywhere near the same as scratch so I don't understand why you're confused.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

if they both contain the same thing isn’t the same product aside from all the additives and high processing in the actual feed? My home made feed has the same ingredients as the scratch you and I use plus a couple more grains, so why is there a difference? Why bcz “they” want to make us Believe that feed and scratch are not the same? Bcz if you make your own feed it is literally the same components as SCRATCH.do you get why I am confused?

RATIOS matter.

A lot of sugar and some egg whites a drop of lemon makes a lovely meringue - dry, light, and airy. A lot of egg yolks, a lot of lemon, and a lot of sugar makes lemon curd - rich, dense, creamy. A lot of egg w/ a bit of sugar makes tamago, a sweetened block of egg found on some sushi - best left on the plate.

and "Scratch" should not be mistaken for nutritional feed. Its like throwing a bunch of college kids several bags of chips and a 6 pack - they'll eat it, they'll be happy about it, it provides lots of energy - but you can't live on it for long.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I've seen this recipe before, I believe. Let me see if I can find the post. I recall it in no small part because those ingredients don't have the same density, so measuring in cups makes calculating the nutritional values "annoying".

/edit Nope - it was a different recipe measured in cups.

I'll throw that into my calculator, make sume assumptions about density, see what it spits out.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

So... Recipe is better than your typical scratch, not up to par w/ a typical layer.

Based on average nutritional values, you are looking at around 14% protein (low), a little over 5% fiber (acceptable), about 12% fat (that's huge!), and your amino acid profile isn't terrible, but is sub par because your total crude protein is so low. You are shy Met, Lys, and Thre, Tryp is ok. and because there is so much fat the total energy content (in spite of the lower protein) is quite high. From the literature, a low energy poultry diet provides about 12 mJ/kg of dietary energy. A high energy diet is around 13.7 mJ/kg of dietary energy.

That recipe has an output (agin, using averages) about 13.1, which sounds great, except that they need to eat about 12-15% more to meet targerts for Met, Lys, and Tryp. 112% of 13.1 is almost 14.7 mJ/kg.

Related - and I'm not sure where you might be in the world - but I can't get most of those ingredients off the shelf, and several that I can are at price points that would make the feed considerably more expensive than shipping in bags of Kalmbach's All Flock, which is a nutritionally superior feed on every metric above, plus guaranteed quantities of things I didn't even look at.

For reference on cost, that's more than 2# of brewer's yeast for every 91# of feed. Depending on your prefered bulk source, thats $22-29 right there. and over 5# of flax seed, another $15. Call it $40 for those two ingredients.

That buys 100# of feed from my local supplier (again, much better nutritional numbers) or a bag and about 1/3 of the next of Kalmbach Non-gmo (if that matters to you) All flock from Chewy - and we've not added up the cost of the other 83.x# of ingredients yet....

 

[AGeese]

If it helps as a suggestion. This is what I'm currently doing for winter, Kalmbach is on sale at Theisen's, Nutrena is affordable (albeit 40lbs), and Purina is what I consider the foundation for all my chickens and geese:

I scoop out equal parts daily and pitch it into feeder pans together. I offer oyster shell in a separate pan along with granite (grit) in a separate pan:

https://nutrenaworld.com/products/naturewise-all-flock-feed/

https://www.purinamills.com/chicken-feed/products/detail/purina-flock-raiser-crumbles

https://www.kalmbachfeeds.com/collections/poultry/products/henhouse-reserve

I have one of these sitting outside to encourage the geese to get out and forage, as well as keep them busy: https://www.kalmbachfeeds.com/collections/poultry/products/henhouse-reserve-block

 

[usaf1997]

Looking at the non gmo premium scratch it has corn as the first ingredient, and no black oil sunflower seeds. Your recipe doesn’t appear to have corn at all. So I don’t think that it would work. I’m guessing you were wanting to use the scratch as your base and then just add in the other ingredients. But since this looks to be mostly corn, I don’t think it will be at all similar to the recipe you are wanting. Unless I’m looking at the wrong thing.

Thanks so much for your input. I appreciate your knowledge so much. I’ve only had chickens for two years so it’s nice to pick the Brains of those that know way more than me

 

[usaf1997]

If it helps as a suggestion. This is what I'm currently doing for winter, Kalmbach is on sale at Theisen's, Nutrena is affordable (albeit 40lbs), and Purina is what I consider the foundation for all my chickens and geese:

I scoop out equal parts daily and pitch it into feeder pans together. I offer oyster shell in a separate pan along with granite (grit) in a separate pan:

https://nutrenaworld.com/products/naturewise-all-flock-feed/

https://www.purinamills.com/chicken-feed/products/detail/purina-flock-raiser-crumbles

https://www.kalmbachfeeds.com/collections/poultry/products/henhouse-reserve

I have one of these sitting outside to encourage the geese to get out and forage, as well as keep them busy: https://www.kalmbachfeeds.com/collections/poultry/products/henhouse-reserve-block

Ok cool!!!! Very good advise. Thanks so much. So very helpful

 

[usaf1997]

I agree, it can be very confusing, especially if one just looks at the the base componants in the various feeds.
Most are wheat based. With the wheat base one often finds higher crude protein base componants such as dried peas, soy products, fish meal (much rarer these days), even kelp and hemp.
What needs to be born in mind is the shortfalls in the amino acid profiles are compensated for by spraying the missing elements with laboratory produced vitamins, minerals, ash and fats, but more importantly, two amino acids, metheionine and lysin, during production.
While homemade feed may match or better the crude protein profile of the commercial feeds, it won't have the additives.

A better way to assess whether or not a homemade feed matches or betters the nutritional profile of a commercial feed is to look at the feed analysis/additives.

The next thing to be taken into consideration is the vast majority of commercially produced layer feeds are designed for commercial laying hens whose nutrient demands are very high in their first two years of laying; laying an egg a day places an awful strain on the bird and from what I've seen, very few of the homemade feeds will supply enough of what high production hens require to produce the maximum number of eggs and supply the own nutritional needs.

A good place to start when considering alternative feeds is the hen; is she a high production breed? How many eggs a year does she lay? (approx will do) How old is she?

The alternative feed advocates; I am one, may tell you they do it for the hens longterm health, or for as a cheaper feeding option, etc. To my knowledge, nobody has done a fair study over a long enough period to prove any of the alternative feed recipes extend the life of the bird, or even contribute to it's overall health.

My reasoning is if currrent science is right and the highly processed food many of us eat is shortening our average life span then htis probably applies to chicken feed as well and it doesn't come much more processed than commercial chicken feed.
I'm prepared to pay extra to feed the chickens I care for to provide them with what I understand from the science, is a healthier diet. I no longer care for any high production hens and I've learned a little about nutrition for chickens and they get out to forage every day for a couple of hours on winter vegetable plots, mixed grasses and orchard and compost.
All these factors need to be taken into account if one is to keep the chickens healthy and productive.

Thanks so much. Very good advice.