I have an 11 week old chick with scabs on her tail feathers.

[DonnaScott]

I have to be honest here. It was a thought I had when I read the description but what the pictures show is the same I surmised when I asked about age and feed. It will likely be ok in the end.
I had a similar situation which turned out to be akin to cannibalism.
So, briefly, here is the story. I had several flocks of chickens, and the number varied from 40 to 100 at any one time. I started feeding organic and rather than store several types of feed for all ages of birds, I switched to a 15% organic grower and a 54% fishmeal. By blending the two at different ratios, I could go from the 15% that was primarily fed to roosters and mature cockerels up to 22% for new chicks and adjusting the protein as they grew. I had a batch of birds about the age of yours. I was cutting back on the fishmeal and eventually when I moved them into another building, I cut it out all together as they were almost grown.
Then I thought I had rats. I saw their backs at the base of the tail had been chewed. I eventually lost one of the birds. One day I walked in about dusk and all the birds were resting together before sleeping and a couple were casually eating the feathers and meat of another bird. To the victim, it problably felt akin to scratching an itch.
I shot the fishmeal back up to achieve 20% protein the next day and the habit ceased. I assume it started with feather picking.
I gradually eased back the protein till I got to 17% until they were at POL.
I would first cut out the scratch and maybe give a high protein treat like canned mackerel a couple times a week.

I don't see anyone bothering her and I spend hours in the pen because they are all beating the hell out of my silkie (different bird who I pray is a rooster so he matures and gets payback). I just set up another pen next to them for my silkie.

I'm giving them 20 % chick starter food.

I will take your advice and get mackerel. I'm desperate and will try anything

I thought my Guineas were a pain in the ass.....wow.

I need my husband to help me cut back my silkies giant afro so he can see but we keep missing each other (he seems blind) ....sorry I went off track.

I don't know what kind of chick the one with the scabs is but I bought a bunch of stuff (coming tomorrow) for lice and some fun things like an outside roost, herbs and dust.

You should come over for a drink so I can peck your brain for chick information

I will go get some mackerel now and hope for the best. She doesn't seem to be in pain over it. I wouldn't have noticed if I wasn't spending a ridiculous amount of time in the pen trying to protect my silkie and learn their behaviors.

Again off topic but man when I went at the bully hen she went ten times as hard on my little silkie. When she ripped out his hair she stared right at me with his feathers in her mouth like she won that round.

I may be able to offer some advice on breaking up birds. I played a hawk call on my phone and they all cowered back into the coop and layed down. Except my silkie. He doesn't care about anything except being pecked to death.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Honestly, I never saw any of the birds pecking either which is why I thought it was rats till I went in at bedtime and saw them casually having a bedtime snack.
Cutting out the scratch will be key though because that is only 10% protein at best, which cuts down the overall intake. Add to that the 20% protein feed is vegetable based (grain/legume) so to bring it up to 20% they have to add lysine and methionine in synthetic form. Animal protein (fish and chicken feathers/meat) is high in those essential amino acids already.
I'd come over to chat chickens but I'm about 1000 miles away.

 

[DonnaScott]

Honestly, I never saw any of the birds pecking either which is why I thought it was rats till I went in at bedtime and saw them casually having a bedtime snack.
Cutting out the scratch will be key though because that is only 10% protein at best, which cuts down the overall intake. Add to that the 20% protein feed is vegetable based (grain/legume) so to bring it up to 20% they have to add lysine and methionine in synthetic form. Animal protein (fish and chicken feathers/meat) is high in those essential amino acids already.
I'd come over to chat chickens but I'm about 1000 miles away.

My run has wiggle room for error but nothing besides a bear will get into my coop

And we don't have bear so I should be okay.

I'll try the mackerel if you believe it will help.

Why do you suggest I cut back on scratch? I'm a newbie with chicks. Obviously. It goes without saying I suppose.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Why do you suggest I cut back on scratch?

Scratch is lower in protein (it's a treat, not feed) so too much scratch intake will drop their overall protein intake.

 

[DonnaScott]

Scratch is lower in protein (it's a treat, not feed) so too much scratch intake will drop their overall protein intake.

Thank you. I was not aware.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

My run has wiggle room for error but nothing besides a bear will get into my coop

And we don't have bear so I should be okay.

I'll try the mackerel if you believe it will help.

Why do you suggest I cut back on scratch? I'm a newbie with chicks. Obviously. It goes without saying I suppose.

It is simple math. All living things have a list of nutrients they need to varying degrees. One of those things all animals (including us) need is protein. It isn't as simple as one would think when seeing the big crude protein number on a bag of feed. Crude protein however is made up of amino acids. About 500 amino acids exist but the human body only has 20. Chickens have 22. There are essential and non-essential. The difference is that an animal's body can make the non-essential ones from essential ones given sufficient quantities are present. 9 amino acids are essential to humans. 13 are essential in a chicken's diet. Foods that contain all the essential amino acids are known as 'complete' proteins. Still, even though all the essentials are present, they aren't in significant quantity to be meaningful. Among those are things like Soy, quinoa and buckwheat. Basically, animal protein is the only thing that has all the essentials in sufficient quantity. But since almost all chicken feed is vegetarian, it creates an issue for omnivores, like chickens.
By combining a grain and a legume, they almost succeed but without adding animal protein (fish or porcine meal) it is necessary to make up the deficiency with synthetic amino acids which are usually lysine and methionine. In this way, they can make a 'complete' feed. Since you are feeding a complete feed (the 20% stuff). No supplements (scratch) are needed. Most scratch grains are between 7.5 and 11% protein. What makes matters worse is that being all grain, it is woefully deficient in some essential amino acids.
So this brings us to the math. Even if the scratch contained complete proteins, being only about 9%, any that takes up some of a chicken's daily intake, lowers the protein in the diet. Most chickens will fill up on scratch if they can. So for that reason, most people suggest only 5 to 10 percent of the diet. However, unless you weigh it out, you'll never know. I know because I've made that mistake before. I ended up with a dead hen. When I did a home necropsy, she was loaded up with fat inside. I immediately put them all on a diet. I cut out scratch and never tossed handfuls all day like I had done in the past.
Sorry for getting sidetracked. Back to the math. If half the diet were 20% and half was scratch, they would be getting 14 or 15% protein and essentials like lysine, methionine and tryptophan, would be well less than half of what a growing body like your birds need.
More realistically, let's say you only make 25% of the diet scratch.
You are now getting 17%. Slightly low for growing birds but dangerously low in essential amino acids needed for growth, immune system and many other bodily processes.
I regret this got so long.

 

[Slothinc]

@ChickenCanoe after reading your posts yesterday I had a dream that I had a bunch of chicks taking bites out of each other! It was horrible

 

[DonnaScott]

It is simple math. All living things have a list of nutrients they need to varying degrees. One of those things all animals (including us) need is protein. It isn't as simple as one would think when seeing the big crude protein number on a bag of feed. Crude protein however is made up of amino acids. About 500 amino acids exist but the human body only has 20. Chickens have 22. There are essential and non-essential. The difference is that an animal's body can make the non-essential ones from essential ones given sufficient quantities are present. 9 amino acids are essential to humans. 13 are essential in a chicken's diet. Foods that contain all the essential amino acids are known as 'complete' proteins. Still, even though all the essentials are present, they aren't in significant quantity to be meaningful. Among those are things like Soy, quinoa and buckwheat. Basically, animal protein is the only thing that has all the essentials in sufficient quantity. But since almost all chicken feed is vegetarian, it creates an issue for omnivores, like chickens.
By combining a grain and a legume, they almost succeed but without adding animal protein (fish or porcine meal) it is necessary to make up the deficiency with synthetic amino acids which are usually lysine and methionine. In this way, they can make a 'complete' feed. Since you are feeding a complete feed (the 20% stuff). No supplements (scratch) are needed. Most scratch grains are between 7.5 and 11% protein. What makes matters worse is that being all grain, it is woefully deficient in some essential amino acids.
So this brings us to the math. Even if the scratch contained complete proteins, being only about 9%, any that takes up some of a chicken's daily intake, lowers the protein in the diet. Most chickens will fill up on scratch if they can. So for that reason, most people suggest only 5 to 10 percent of the diet. However, unless you weigh it out, you'll never know. I know because I've made that mistake before. I ended up with a dead hen. When I did a home necropsy, she was loaded up with fat inside. I immediately put them all on a diet. I cut out scratch and never tossed handfuls all day like I had done in the past.
Sorry for getting sidetracked. Back to the math. If half the diet were 20% and half was scratch, they would be getting 14 or 15% protein and essentials like lysine, methionine and tryptophan, would be well less than half of what a growing body like your birds need.
More realistically, let's say you only make 25% of the diet scratch.
You are now getting 17%. Slightly low for growing birds but dangerously low in essential amino acids needed for growth, immune system and many other bodily processes.
I regret this got so long.

What are your thoughts on black soldier fly larvae?

I was filling my solo cup about a quarter full of scratch and a quick scoop of the larva between the 4 of them (the silkie doesn't eat it) and only gave it to them at night to give them something fun to do.

Then I give them things like scrambled eggs, left over stuff, fruits, vegetables, popcorn...

Should I hold off on the treats until they are older?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

People that feed BSF larvae swear by them. I started to do so at one time but never followed through.
I always recommend any time there is an issue with your birds, go back to basics avoiding the urge to be creative.
Keeping chickens is a good use of table scraps that would go to waste. While feeding kitchen waste, don't forget that chickens are omnivores and will gladly devour any meat, fish or poultry product rather than going into the trash.
Provide things chickens would get naturally, big quantities of fresh air, water (hopefully clean) and good nutrition. Since we are providing an artificial environment, stick with an age-appropriate feed that is fresh. Preferably milled in the last 2 months.
The research has been going on for well over a hundred years. Everyone has it and the feed companies put it all conveniently in a bag for us. We can't provide the nutrients chickens need in the correct ratios that are in the bag of feed without a great deal of research and at much higher cost.
The feed companies win by the law of "economies of scale".
If we wanted to make feed, we buy grain or legumes by the 50 lb bag. Feed companies buy by the trainload. We buy supplements like vitamins, minerals, amino acids and fats by the pound, ounce or gram. They buy by the ton. They also assay the nutrients of the raw product, use software to analyze how much of each ingredient goes into the mix. They then assay the feed out of each batch and those numbers go onto the guaranteed analysis tag that every animal husbandry person should read when they are buying feed for their animals. Or read before buying food for themselves and families too.
Especially, mill date, protein %, calcium % and brand by brand, pay attention to vitamins A, D and E if provided. Not all companies list the latter 3 because it isn't required but if they do, it tells me they are proud of what is in the bag. Those mentioned are the fat soluble vitamins that are critical, can be affected by heat and age.
All this goes to hell if one doesn't determine the mill date or if the store carelessly doesn't rotate feed before it is old.

 

[DonnaScott]

People that feed BSF larvae swear by them. I started to do so at one time but never followed through.
I always recommend any time there is an issue with your birds, go back to basics avoiding the urge to be creative.
Keeping chickens is a good use of table scraps that would go to waste. While feeding kitchen waste, don't forget that chickens are omnivores and will gladly devour any meat, fish or poultry product rather than going into the trash.
Provide things chickens would get naturally, big quantities of fresh air, water (hopefully clean) and good nutrition. Since we are providing an artificial environment, stick with an age-appropriate feed that is fresh. Preferably milled in the last 2 months.
The research has been going on for well over a hundred years. Everyone has it and the feed companies put it all conveniently in a bag for us. We can't provide the nutrients chickens need in the correct ratios that are in the bag of feed without a great deal of research and at much higher cost.
The feed companies win by the law of "economies of scale".
If we wanted to make feed, we buy grain or legumes by the 50 lb bag. Feed companies buy by the trainload. We buy supplements like vitamins, minerals, amino acids and fats by the pound, ounce or gram. They buy by the ton. They also assay the nutrients of the raw product, use software to analyze how much of each ingredient goes into the mix. They then assay the feed out of each batch and those numbers go onto the guaranteed analysis tag that every animal husbandry person should read.
Especially, mill date, protein %, calcium % and brand by brand, pay attention to vitamins A, D and E if provided. Not all companies list the latter 3 because it isn't required but if they do, it tells me they are proud of what is in the bag. Those mentioned are the fat soluble vitamins that are critical, can be affected by heat and age.
All this goes to hell if one doesn't determine the mill date or if the store carelessly doesn't rotate feed before it is old.

I think you are on to something about the protein deficiency/Amino acids.

Remember when I went off topic talking about the birds attacking my Silkie. I was looking up ways to try to mend the relationship online and read that if they are eating feathers then they lack Protein/Amino acids.

That was something I only noticed yesterday. I thought it was odd. They were eating feathers on the ground and pulling them from my Silkie and eating them.

I will be feeding the mackerel to them when I get home. You could have quite possibly saved the day for my Silkie....time will tell.

Thank you for all of your wonderful advice