International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[BlueTheBrahma]

Grabbed some pics of Poppy today.
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A white marans? Am I right in saying he was from the BSM hatch?

 

[wrathsfarm]

A white marans? Am I right in saying he was from the BSM hatch?

I might not have the lingo right but he's BBS Silver (recessive white) from the eggs I got from @Bantambird

Of course I won't know if he's hiding Black or Blue til I test mate him. The other egg I hatched is Solo (Black Silver pullet)
The 3rd pic I tried to get a closeup of the black or blue speckles throughout his feathers, he's had them since feathering out.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

Correct. I might not have the lingo right but he's BBS Silver (recessive white) from the eggs I got from @Bantambird

Of course I won't know if he's hiding Black or Blue til I test mate him. The other egg I hatched is Solo (Black Silver pullet)
The 3rd pic I tried to get a closeup of the black or blue speckles throughout his feathers, he's had them since feathering out.

He’s got lovely type: a show worthy English white marans in many regards (I know that’s no good for you in the US). Looking forwards to seeing him as an adult, and any offspring. Are you breeding him to the BSM pullet alone, or introducing his genetics elsewhere? His type may be beneficial to your BCMs, if you were willing to deal which recessive white in them and didn’t mind a temporary sacrifice on copper for the sake of type.

 

[wrathsfarm]

He’s got lovely type: a show worthy English white marans in many regards (I know that’s no good for you in the US). Looking forwards to seeing him as an adult, and any offspring. Are you breeding him to the BSM pullet alone, or introducing his genetics elsewhere? His type may be beneficial to your BCMs, if you were willing to deal which recessive white in them and didn’t mind a temporary sacrifice on copper for the sake of type.

I've got Solo in with Kong at the moment because Poppy is all teenager mode. But when she starts laying I'm going to put her, the Olive Egger and that MMM pullet from Black in with him just so he's got more than just her. And then start hatching Solo's eggs and maybe the OE's also.
Hopefully getting more BBS Silver eggs in the spring also.

 

[Bantambird]

He is looking very nice. I should post a picture of my recessive white cockerel I hatched and kept for me this year. I just love his shape so much! He got tossed into the pullet pen prematurely, however, because someone pecked out his eye! So, he has to be named Jack now. I don't always keep the recessive white cockerels, but this guy tickled my fancy in the way that felt right to keep. Other than the missing eye, he is very healthy, polite, and handsome.

 

[wrathsfarm]

He is looking very nice. I should post a picture of my recessive white cockerel I hatched and kept for me this year. I just love his shape so much! He got tossed into the pullet pen prematurely, however, because someone pecked out his eye! So, he has to be named Jack now. I don't always keep the recessive white cockerels, but this guy tickled my fancy in the way that felt right to keep. Other than the missing eye, he is very healthy, polite, and handsome.

Please do. Would love to see a pic of Jack.

 

[wrathsfarm]

His type may be beneficial to your BCMs, if you were willing to deal which recessive white in them and didn’t mind a temporary sacrifice on copper for the sake of type.

I didn't think I could do this...

Can you elaborate?

As it stands I'd like to breed Solo (Black Silver) into the BCMs first and go from there. I need to get some real good pics of her, as she's very pretty now at 26 wks.
She's chunky and low
I also have a few more BCM hens to test mate plus all the pullets when they start laying. Just need to decide if I'm still using Kong or his sons, or both.
Jett has that wide stance and she's hefty. I hatched 2 from her but neither one made it past a couple weeks so want to set some of her eggs again this year.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

I didn't think I could do this...

Can you elaborate?

As it stands I'd like to breed Solo (Black Silver) into the BCMs first and go from there. I need to get some real good pics of her, as she's very pretty now at 26 wks.
She's chunky and low
I also have a few more BCM hens to test mate plus all the pullets when they start laying. Just need to decide if I'm still using Kong or his sons, or both.
Jett has that wide stance and she's hefty. I hatched 2 from her but neither one made it past a couple weeks so want to set some of her eggs again this year.

(Correct me if I’m wrong on anything) Your main issues with your BCMs is tail angle and the narrowness in the rear, other than that, they are fantastic. That White cockerel has great type, low tail and wider rear. As he is E^R masked by c/c, when bred to BCMs you want to fix the tails of, the offspring will be golden (as in half silver half gold) black/blues. So if you found these had improved type than your BCMs, the only thing you’d need to do is breed them true for gold, aka copper, and breed out recessive white if you wanted.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

(Correct me if I’m wrong on anything) Your main issues with your BCMs is tail angle and the narrowness in the rear, other than that, they are fantastic. That White cockerel has great type, low tail and wider rear. As he is E^R masked by c/c, when bred to BCMs you want to fix the tails of, the offspring will be golden (as in half silver half gold) black/blues. So if you found these had improved type than your BCMs, the only thing you’d need to do is breed them true for gold, aka copper, and breed out recessive white if you wanted.

The only downsides would be recessive white if you didn’t want it occasionally showing up again, and maybe a loss of Autosomal red genes, but they can be worked back in easily, especially given the quality of copper you already have.

(Also the clean leggedness, but that can also be fixed easily.)

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

Breeding gold in to improve silver should not be done, as the autosomal red genes mess up the purity of silver, leaving you with golden or cream colours which are difficult to breed out.

The other way around, breeding silvers into golds (coppers), is less damaging as you want autosomal red in them anyway (you may find the red gets diluted a little, which is fixable). You just need to breed two of the S/s+ offspring produced to get back to pure s+/s+.