International Black Copper Marans Thread - Breeding to the SOP

[wrathsfarm]

(Correct me if I’m wrong on anything) Your main issues with your BCMs is tail angle and the narrowness in the rear, other than that, they are fantastic. That White cockerel has great type, low tail and wider rear. As he is E^R masked by c/c, when bred to BCMs you want to fix the tails of, the offspring will be golden (as in half silver half gold) black/blues. So if you found these had improved type than your BCMs, the only thing you’d need to do is breed them true for gold, aka copper, and breed out recessive white if you wanted.

The only downsides would be recessive white if you didn’t want it occasionally showing up again, and maybe a loss of Autosomal red genes, but they can be worked back in easily, especially given the quality of copper you already have.

(Also the clean leggedness, but that can also be fixed easily.)

Breeding gold in to improve silver should not be done, as the autosomal red genes mess up the purity of silver, leaving you with golden or cream colours which are difficult to breed out.

The other way around, breeding silvers into golds (coppers), is less damaging as you want autosomal red in them anyway (you may find the red gets diluted a little, which is fixable). You just need to breed two of the S/s+ offspring produced to get back to pure s+/s+.

Thank you for the insight. I'll jot all this down in my notes and may need to pick your brain more as I grasp all this.

Will this mating be like breeding Solo to Kong, where all males will be culls and females pure, only backwards?
I like the idea of using Solo, as all males could be sold, and I'm at least getting pure BCM females.

 

[wrathsfarm]

Thank you for the insight. I'll jot all this down in my notes and may need to pick your brain more as I grasp all this.

Will this mating be like breeding Solo to Kong, where all males will be culls and females pure, only backwards?
I like the idea of using Solo, as all males could be sold, and I'm at least getting pure BCM females.

About his clean legs, @Bantambird may have this answer but I've been curious about, just forgot to ask. I also just thought maybe it was the recessive white causing it?
But I'd like to learn what causes the clean legs and also his shank color...or if it is the white causing it.

 

[wrathsfarm]

I do need to get some pics of the 6 BCM boys. There's 4 from Raven and 2 from Momma.
There's a couple that have very nice leg stance and a couple that have real nice small tails. (Not sure if any have both).
So that's exciting to see, but at 14 wks I think it's too early to see (with my eyes anyways) what type/mass they have.

If I get some pics posted, I could hopefully get some better eyes than mine on them for the good and bad....early selections. I'm looking to keep 2-3 and sell the others around 19-20 wks.
I'm just repeating myself but want to be thorough, but I have 3 more boys that are 8 wks also, so 9 total BCM cockerels.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

Thank you for the insight. I'll jot all this down in my notes and may need to pick your brain more as I grasp all this.

Will this mating be like breeding Solo to Kong, where all males will be culls and females pure, only backwards?
I like the idea of using Solo, as all males could be sold, and I'm at least getting pure BCM females.

Females will be pure BCM for Kong/Solo, the males will be impure but not necessarily culls (silver birds produced by these cockerels will be).

Yes, it would work with solo, I can’t remember what she looks live exactly but remember her having good type also. In fact, Kong cross Solo will give you faster results than the white cockerel cross BCM hens.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

About his clean legs, @Bantambird may have this answer but I've been curious about, just forgot to ask. I also just thought maybe it was the recessive white causing it?
But I'd like to learn what causes the clean legs and also his shank color...or if it is the white causing it.

Recessive white diluted pigment. All pigment, this includes the legs and beak. White marans have white or pink legs, as the recessive white hides the slate shading from the birchen gene.

I do not believe it can cause featherless shanks. From my understanding there is two genes for leg feathers, but both are needed or one trumps the other, I’ll have to read up on it.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

What I’m about to say is pure speculation, I’d have to do some research to prove it.

But from what I understand, the (American) Black Silver Marans is a more recent development than the likes of the Whites and Coppers. I very much doubt that they were imported from France.
It is more likely that the silver gene had to be introduced to BCMs from something else, an English dark cuckoo or silver cuckoo marans for example, or even another breed.

Because of this, the chances of them carrying alleles for featherless legs is higher than the ‘purer’ varieties of marans in the US.

If anyone else knows more about this please add

 

[wrathsfarm]

Females will be pure BCM for Kong/Solo, the males will be impure but not necessarily culls (silver birds produced by these cockerels will be).

Not all males will show silver?

Yes, it would work with solo, I can’t remember what she looks live exactly but remember her having good type also. In fact, Kong cross Solo will give you faster results than the white cockerel cross BCM hens.

I'll try to get pics of her soon.

 

[Bantambird]

About the clean legs: they show up occasionally. I tend to select for the light feathering, and don't keep anything with heavy feathering. This means I get occasional clean legs. It's like walking a tightrope. Marans have the feathers only on the outside of the leg, and outside toe, avoid full feathered legs, no vulture jocks, middle toe feathering is frowned on, so sometimes you veer too light.
Jack turned out to be a chunky lug and I love him. One Eyed Jack.

 

[Bantambird]

The hens munched his tail, it was fuller a few weeks ago

 

[Bantambird]

I did end up with some super nice blue color in my pullets this year. You can see them peeking around Jack.