Inventions To Thank Pagans For

[PortageGirl]

That IS sad deb1, whatever the origin or what was once done, it's the intent of the celebrant now that is important. If you celebrate because you are christian, it's a christian holiday no matter what IMO

 

[deb1]

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I agree.

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

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I agree.

Me too. People often ask me if I know the origins of some traditions or holidays that don't jibe with my spiritual beliefs or were not as nice as they are now, then why do I still do them......

Meanings of words and actions change over time. Once upon a time you held out your right hand palm up to show that you were unarmed and peaceful. Now it is the polite greeting between two people when they meet. (In this country be wary in others!)

Our tree is covered in ornaments that have meaning. Each year we get ornaments from places we go and each year we get a new one that is dated. It is a giant memory tree. It symbolizes rebirth, renewal, and continuity and connection for me......

 

[Q9]

Random interesting fact, Christmas was placed on December 25th to make it more relevant to Roman culture. The Romans celebrated the 25th as the rebirth of the sun, and Christians changed it to celebrate the birth of the Son. I'm a Christian, so I find this thread quite fascinating, and would like to make a point. While "pagans" made many contributions to mathematics and related sciences, along with fascinating and occasionally absurd inventions, "science" in and of itself only began to flourish in Christian Europe. There's a reason that Europe was WAY ahead of Native Americans, Chinese, and basically all other cultures for quite a while. Christian Europe also pioneered true capitalism. Really, modern science owes almost everything to Christian ideas about nature, including the belief in natural laws created by God, and only changed in the very rare event of miracles. Not trying to start a debate, it's just that I'm reading a great book on the subject and had to start spewing info SOMEWHERE.

If for some strange reason this has offended someone, I apologize.

 

[barred-rocks-rock]

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I had forgotten that Babylonians had invented Algebra.

darn babylonians

 

[mom'sfolly]

Actually, the Renaissance was the when science really took off in Europe. It was a revival of art, culture and science, lost during the middle ages. It was based on the pagan ideas of Rome and Greece, and preserved largely by the Eastern Church and Islam.

Arguable, science was more advanced in China, India and parts of the Americas than in Europe at the time of Columbus. In Mexico, some of the largest cities in the world existed. Meso-America had science, math, writing and technology. Ancient China was far more advanced then Europe, as was India.

I think Christianity had little to do with the advance of science. Worldwide science, technology, language, religions, exploration and conquest were happening from the 15th century onwards. Cultures, science and technology have ebbed and flowed, but all of it is built on the past.

 

[dacjohns]

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Did you mean to say what you did say? "all the Baptist churches in the North (Cleveland, anyway) are all black churches."

I disagree that evey Baptist church in Cleveland is all Black. I really disagree that every Baptist church in the North is all Black.

 

[Goose and Fig]

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Did you mean to say what you did say? "all the Baptist churches in the North (Cleveland, anyway) are all black churches."

I disagree that evey Baptist church in Cleveland is all Black. I really disagree that every Baptist church in the North is all Black.

Yeah- I just meant Cleveland. Seriously, they are. I didn't say white people don't/can't go to the churches. I went several times for research. Many of them are over 200 years old, and were founded by slaves that came up to Ohio through the Underground Railroad. I did a huge research project on an Episcopal church as well. St John's is the oldest standing church in Cleveland- possibly even the state. The original stone belltower still stands, and below the church is a tunnel that leads to Lake Erie, where the runaway slaves would catch rides over to Canada. It has a mixed congregation.

Northeast Ohio is very diverse- but most of the white population is either Catholic or Jewish.

Really- the whole point of bringing that up was about how another pagan culture that were forced/converted into Christianity added their own traditions.

 

[Goose and Fig]

Just for fun- (in the spirit of the Da Vinci Code

)

It is written that Jesus said to Peter "You are the rock that my church will be built upon" (forgive my paraphrase)

The vatican ( or is it the chapel or the basilica?) is actually built on top of St.Peter's tomb.

I'm not sure if this is truth or legend, but it gives me chills!

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

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Certainly, not offended, but would LOVE to know the title of a book that manages to find THAT provable.

Christianity really held back the flourishing of science especially mathematics during the Dark ages and destroyed a huge percentage of the world's accumulated knowledge in the sacking of the Ottoman empire. They didn't call them the Dark ages because the sun never came out.....

Modern science, such as the sun revolving around the earth? Wasn't Copernicus imprisoned for suggesting that it might be the other way around? There are dozens of scientists who were imprisoned or censored, including Darwin, for suggesting anything that was not in keeping with church doctrine of the time.

Nothing against christianity and its good works, but I'd really need to read this book that refutes the church's own documents of its attempts to keep science in line with church doctrine. What is the title?? Who wrote it? Seriously I will run out and read it tomorrow!