Isabella Orpington hen cross Blue Orpington Roo

[jjackson-7]

Hi there,

So I’m very new to the whole concepts surrounding chicken genetics and the resulting colourations from crossing different colors. I’ve been researching and reading in every bit of spare time I can muster, and I just haven’t stumbled across something easilly digestible in regards to this pair I’ve picked up.

So background- I found a pair of Isabella Orpingtons online and travelled quite a distance to get them. When I arrived, the owner informed me that the roo had disappeared out of the outdoor run. But I could choose one of these other rooster. There stood this gargantuan blue(?) Orpington rooster. Absolutely gorgeous in my opinion. They spouted some statistics regarding the resulting offspring but at the time in my ignorance I didn’t realize how complex chicken colors can be. I didn’t know enough to pay more attention to what they were saying. They looked similar in color to me so I chose gigantor and brought them home.

Now I’m going -what have I done. Can anyone advise me as to what the colouration of these chicks could be. Also, I’m 99%sure he’s blue. Now I’m worried he’s actually lavender. (They had both for me to choose from) What would crosses from a lavender result in. And is there a chart or something somewhere that could help me with this kind of thing so I dont have to look like such an uninformed greenhorn online to figure out what my ignorance has boughten me.

Thankyou.

 

[NatJ]

I'm sorry, I don't know where to find something that lays it all out neatly.

One point that easily causes confusion:
"Blue" is the name of a gene, and also the name of one color variety that has that gene. (Plenty of other color varieties have that gene too.)

"Lavender" is the name of a gene, and also the name of one color variety that has that gene. (Plenty of other color varieties have that gene too.)

Blue:
Blue is a gene that dilutes black. It is incompletely dominant, so a chicken looks different depending on whether it has two, one, or no copies of that gene.

A splash chicken has two copies of the blue gene. A blue chicken has one copy of the blue gene, and one not-blue. A black chicken has two copies of the not-blue gene. So black chickens can breed true, and splash chickens can breed true, but blue chickens can pass on either the gene for blue or for not-blue.

If you breed a blue chicken to a black chicken, you get some blue chicks and some black ones (about 50/50)
If you breed a blue chicken to a splash chicken, you get some blue chicks and some splash ones (about 50/50)
If you breed a blue chicken to another blue chicken, you get chicks of all three colors (about 25% black, 50% blue, 25% splash). The black and the splash are when a chick gets matching genes from both parents, and the blues are when a chick gets blue from one parent and not-blue from the other parent.

The blue gene affects any black on the chicken. So a solid black chicken becomes blue all over, but a black laced red chicken would become a blue laced red chicken, a black laced silver would become a blue laced silver, and similarly for any other kind of black pattern: the black can become blue or splash, but the other color on the chicken is mostly unaffected.

Your "blue" rooster is probably a bird with the genes to be solid black, and one copy of the blue gene turning all that black into blue.


Lavender:
Lavender is a gene that dilutes both black and red. (I'm using "red" here to mean most shades of brown and all shades of red, orange, gold, yellow, etc.)

Lavender is a recessive gene. That means a chicken with two copies of the lavender gene will show the effects.

Because lavender is recessive, when you cross a lavender chicken with a not-lavender chicken, you get chicks that carry the lavender gene but do not show it. Those chicks can pass the lavender gene to their own chicks, who will show it only if they get lavender from both parents.

When a chicken has two copies of the lavender gene, we call it different names depending on what other colors it has. If it has the genes to be black all over, and then has the black diluted to lavender, we call it "Lavender." But if the chicken has the genes for Mille Fleur color, with the black and gold diluted by lavender, we call it "Porcelain." And your Isabella would have the lavender gene on either Duckwing or Partridge (either one gets called Isabella, and I can't remember which is more common in Orpingtons.)

If you cross a Blue chicken to an Isabella chicken:
--half the chicks will have one copy of the blue gene (so they show blue in their feathers), and the other half will not (so they show black in their feathers)
--all the chicks will have one copy of the lavender gene, but will not show it
--the black-all-over pattern from the blue chicken will be mostly dominant over the black & red pattern from the Isabella, so the chicks will be mostly black (diluted to blue in half of them), although they may have bits of gold or silver showing through in places as they grow up.

If you cross a lavender chicken to an Isabella chicken:
--all chicks will be pure for the lavender gene
--the black-all-over pattern from the lavender chicken will be mostly dominant over the black & red pattern from the Isabella, so the chicks will be mostly black (diluted to lavender) although they may have bits of gold or silver showing through in places as they grow up (any gold leakage would also be diluted by the lavender gene.)

 

[jjackson-7]

Oh Thankyou so much. You have explained things a lot clearer than I’ve been able to find myself. Obviously still a lot to understand but I know a bit about horse genetics and things have clicked a bit if I think of the chickens in those terms. Basically lavender is a homozygous diluter the same way perlino in horses is. Also once I’ve sort of understood the whole “splits” or “split to” is another way of saying it’s heterozygous for a gene-it’s just clicking a bit.

I am going to post a pic of my roo later -I forgot my camera this morning-but looking at him again I’m thinking he is Lavender and would like some confirmation of that.

Thanks again

 

[NatJ]

...I know a bit about horse genetics and things have clicked a bit if I think of the chickens in those terms. Basically lavender is a homozygous diluter the same way perlino in horses is. Also once I’ve sort of understood the whole “splits” or “split to” is another way of saying it’s heterozygous for a gene-it’s just clicking a bit.

Oh, good. Knowing some genetics makes it a lot easier.

Lavender as a homozgous diluter: yes, correct.
(Although since perlino is a homozygote, and palomino a heterozygote, the cream gene in horses makes a good model for blue in chickens: black homozygote, blue heterozygote, splash the diluted homozygote.)

Yes, "split" is the same as heterozygous.

If you want more information, I have found these pages about chicken genetics to be useful:
http://kippenjungle.nl/sellers/page3.html
http://kippenjungle.nl/sellers/page2.html

There is also a chicken genetics calculator:
http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html
It can be used to calculate offspring from a cross, but I mostly just play with it to help understand what each gene does. If you change the gene in a dropdown box, the little picture of the chicken at the top will change too.

The E locus has a big effect on how the colors are distributed on the chicken (black in some places, red in others.) That is also affected by a few other genes (Pg, Ml, Db, Co). Most of the remaining ones just modify specific colors (diluting black or red or both), or add white (barring or mottling or recessive white.)

Note, chicken sex chromosomes are backwards of mammals. Roosters have ZZ, hens have ZW.

I am going to post a pic of my roo later -I forgot my camera this morning-but looking at him again I’m thinking he is Lavender and would like some confirmation of that.

 

[jjackson-7]

So Lavender Roo correct? He’s a bit shaggy looking as he decided to splash around in the duck water tub.

 

[NatJ]

So Lavender Roo correct? He’s a bit shaggy looking as he decided to splash around in the duck water tub.

I think he probably is lavender, not blue.

@The Moonshiner @LadiesAndJane
Can you check me on that?
I'm not very good at telling lavender from blue, but the color on this one looks very light and even, so I think he must be lavender.

 

[The Moonshiner]

Yes he's Lavender

 

[LadiesAndJane]

Yes, indeed.

 

[jjackson-7]

Thankyou all. I appreciate the information and input.

 

[mwhit35]

I'm sorry, I don't know where to find something that lays it all out neatly.

One point that easily causes confusion:
"Blue" is the name of a gene, and also the name of one color variety that has that gene. (Plenty of other color varieties have that gene too.)

"Lavender" is the name of a gene, and also the name of one color variety that has that gene. (Plenty of other color varieties have that gene too.)

Blue:
Blue is a gene that dilutes black. It is incompletely dominant, so a chicken looks different depending on whether it has two, one, or no copies of that gene.

A splash chicken has two copies of the blue gene. A blue chicken has one copy of the blue gene, and one not-blue. A black chicken has two copies of the not-blue gene. So black chickens can breed true, and splash chickens can breed true, but blue chickens can pass on either the gene for blue or for not-blue.

If you breed a blue chicken to a black chicken, you get some blue chicks and some black ones (about 50/50)
If you breed a blue chicken to a splash chicken, you get some blue chicks and some splash ones (about 50/50)
If you breed a blue chicken to another blue chicken, you get chicks of all three colors (about 25% black, 50% blue, 25% splash). The black and the splash are when a chick gets matching genes from both parents, and the blues are when a chick gets blue from one parent and not-blue from the other parent.

The blue gene affects any black on the chicken. So a solid black chicken becomes blue all over, but a black laced red chicken would become a blue laced red chicken, a black laced silver would become a blue laced silver, and similarly for any other kind of black pattern: the black can become blue or splash, but the other color on the chicken is mostly unaffected.

Your "blue" rooster is probably a bird with the genes to be solid black, and one copy of the blue gene turning all that black into blue.


Lavender:
Lavender is a gene that dilutes both black and red. (I'm using "red" here to mean most shades of brown and all shades of red, orange, gold, yellow, etc.)

Lavender is a recessive gene. That means a chicken with two copies of the lavender gene will show the effects.

Because lavender is recessive, when you cross a lavender chicken with a not-lavender chicken, you get chicks that carry the lavender gene but do not show it. Those chicks can pass the lavender gene to their own chicks, who will show it only if they get lavender from both parents.

When a chicken has two copies of the lavender gene, we call it different names depending on what other colors it has. If it has the genes to be black all over, and then has the black diluted to lavender, we call it "Lavender." But if the chicken has the genes for Mille Fleur color, with the black and gold diluted by lavender, we call it "Porcelain." And your Isabella would have the lavender gene on either Duckwing or Partridge (either one gets called Isabella, and I can't remember which is more common in Orpingtons.)

If you cross a Blue chicken to an Isabella chicken:
--half the chicks will have one copy of the blue gene (so they show blue in their feathers), and the other half will not (so they show black in their feathers)
--all the chicks will have one copy of the lavender gene, but will not show it
--the black-all-over pattern from the blue chicken will be mostly dominant over the black & red pattern from the Isabella, so the chicks will be mostly black (diluted to blue in half of them), although they may have bits of gold or silver showing through in places as they grow up.

If you cross a lavender chicken to an Isabella chicken:
--all chicks will be pure for the lavender gene
--the black-all-over pattern from the lavender chicken will be mostly dominant over the black & red pattern from the Isabella, so the chicks will be mostly black (diluted to lavender) although they may have bits of gold or silver showing through in places as they grow up (any gold leakage would also be diluted by the lavender gene.)

Very informative post and thank you for explaining. To go a bit further in helping me understand... I have a Lavender Brahma roo (parents were Lavender x Isabella). If I cross him back to an Isabella can I expect most of the chicks to also be Isabella?? Is there a way to insure all chicks are Isabella or will you always have a mix of solid lavs and Isabellas?

Also, I have seen this color written as Isabel...is it a diff. color or just an incorrect spelling? Thank you!!!