Meat Bird Comparison: Freedom Ranger Hatchery White Ranger, FR New Hampshire, Cornish Rock Cross, and Ginger Broilers

[Ridgerunner]

The majority of hatcheries we but from are mass marketing birds that pretty much follow breed standards at a low competitive cost. They generally use the pen breeding method where they may have about 20 roosters in a pen with maybe 200 hens randomly mating. This ratio is to keep fertility high and maintain genetic diversity. They want the eggs to hatch. They are mostly family type small businesses and usually have someone that understands genetics that selects which chickens get to breed. They generally select those breeders by breed standards but the nature of random breeding is not going to breed show chickens, including size.

Breeders on the other hand carefully select which specific rooster gets to breed which specific hen. They carefully match characteristics to enhance the chances of getting a champion show chicken. They have their own techniques to maintain genetic diversity, often a spiral breeding method. It takes a lot of expertise and work to raise enough chickens to an age that they can determine which are their keepers. It is not easy and it can get expensive. These hatching eggs or chickens are not sold at mass market prices if they are sold at all.

One of the traits the breeders typically breed for is size. Show chickens are rewarded for being fairy large. Weight is a breed requirement that hatchery chickens usually do not meet. If size is that important to you in your meat chickens you will be better off getting the more expensive breeder birds as your foundation stock. It will make a huge difference. But when you start selecting which birds get to breed you need to know enough to know which birds to eat and which to select as breeders.

when I saw increased weaknesses in the 2024 than any of the previous 3 replacement batches (crossed beak, curled toes, angel wings, greater variability in size/weight, aggression, poor fertilization) I sadly realized it was clear these were not the product of Henry Noll's meatbird selection

I have no actual knowledge of the details of any of this. The first time someone other than Henry Knoll selected which chickens got to breed they were no longer Henry Knoll's birds. That's why I made my comment above about needing to know which ones to breed. That's not just breeding for traits, that's breeding for genetic diversity. As I said, this stuff is not easy or cheap.

 

[SE_Gardener]

The majority of hatcheries we but from are mass marketing birds that pretty much follow breed standards at a low competitive cost. They generally use the pen breeding method where they may have about 20 roosters in a pen with maybe 200 hens randomly mating. This ratio is to keep fertility high and maintain genetic diversity. They want the eggs to hatch. They are mostly family type small businesses and usually have someone that understands genetics that selects which chickens get to breed. They generally select those breeders by breed standards but the nature of random breeding is not going to breed show chickens, including size.

Breeders on the other hand carefully select which specific rooster gets to breed which specific hen. They carefully match characteristics to enhance the chances of getting a champion show chicken. They have their own techniques to maintain genetic diversity, often a spiral breeding method. It takes a lot of expertise and work to raise enough chickens to an age that they can determine which are their keepers. It is not easy and it can get expensive. These hatching eggs or chickens are not sold at mass market prices if they are sold at all.

One of the traits the breeders typically breed for is size. Show chickens are rewarded for being fairy large. Weight is a breed requirement that hatchery chickens usually do not meet. If size is that important to you in your meat chickens you will be better off getting the more expensive breeder birds as your foundation stock. It will make a huge difference. But when you start selecting which birds get to breed you need to know enough to know which birds to eat and which to select as breeders.


I have no actual knowledge of the details of any of this. The first time someone other than Henry Knoll selected which chickens got to breed they were no longer Henry Knoll's birds. That's why I made my comment above about needing to know which ones to breed. That's not just breeding for traits, that's breeding for genetic diversity. As I said, this stuff is not easy or cheap.

My foundation stock were hatched by Art D. obtained from Henry Noll. From that point forward I believe Art D had stock he hatched from Henry Noll eggs producing F1. From that point forward who knows what matings/generations occurred, hence my reference to "F99".

Breeders of layer hens often toss multiple roosters into a large population of hens - this summarizes commercial hatcheries selling to public. Breeders who own specific strains are very selective and even sometimes artificially inseminate then license their chicks/hatch eggs, e.g. Aviagen, Hubbard. As you stated, Breeders for exhibition are very selective in the matings and generally confine a rooster and hen or a couple hens for several weeks. Breeders for meatbirds keep meticulous breeding records tracking which birds were mated and incubate each batch separately then track/record feathering, fleshing, weight and overall development. Chicks are banded either removal from incubator or placement into brooder. That way the records are individualize and offer subjective as well as objective scores for culling. I follow this protocol and even track/record finished birds noting processed weight (breasts, thighs, legs), feed both price and quantity and dates. That way I can maintain a relatively small breed flock of single rooster w/8-9 henswhich is why I repopulate hens at 3 yrs and roos at 4yr. I repopulate straight run every 4yrs hatching replacements at 3yr so that they can replace depopulated breeders. With respect to my experience with Henry Noll strain (to be clear who I'm referencing - Henry Noll Amish PA farmer who owned an implement store - not Knoll) I shared my 8+yr experience.

 

[amgrb78]

Background:

This thread is to document my experiences with Freedom Ranger hatchery's White Rangers (3m broiler very similar in appearance to CX) and New Hampshires optimized for meat production. My previous meat bird experience has been with a straight run 25 bird batch of Cornish Rock Cross from Welp hatchery and two generations of Ginger Broilers from Murray mcMurray - generation 2 I hatched myself until I decided variability in adult size, small eggs with shell issues and low fertility, and mean-ness of the roos made it undesirable to continue to hatch these. So I'll be comparing WR with NH and with the meat birds I've previous tried.

Here is a thread where I polled the community and got good input on White Rangers and New Hampshires from FR. https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...chery-results-and-experiences-anyone.1580018/

I was very happy with the CX from Welp, they were great as far as CX go, but I did have 2-3 birds die from heart attack, one whose hocks gave out, and one who got stuck on her back and I was able to flip her over before she passed. I processed those from 5-9 weeks, and after 6 weeks I parted them all out since they were so big they wouldn't have cooked evenly as a full carcass, or fit in my freezer well. Also, they weren't sustainable. I tried to keep a hen or so back, and they were just too big - I should have fed them less from the beginning in order to keep one back, and I didn't. They were always RAVENOUS!!! Seriously obsessed with food.

The Ginger Broiler roos I got from Murray McMurray were mean as snakes, the hens were okay, but extremely variable in size. The first hen I kept back was the largest at 9 lbs (measured live weight), but she had poor egg quality - one or more double yolkers a week, malformed shells every week or two, mostly a daily layer. Her offspring (2nd gen) varied in size and were mostly daily layers, but for some reason couldn't get enough calcium in their shells, and their eggs were small size, and often busted in the nest box, issues with shell-less eggs. [Did not treat with human calcium citrate, set out bowls of oyster shell. Probably stressed from rooster injury.] Gave 4 of their eggs to a broody and tried to incubate about 12 more, and none of the 2nd generation's eggs made it to hatch. Either they weren't fertilized, or were quitters. The 2nd generation roos were ganging up on the females and cutting up their sides. I could have dealt with the side cutting using chicken saddles, but the gang mating against the hen's wishes was a step too far. Some human aggressiveness was also becoming evident as they aged. I had to incubate 15-20 eggs just to get 6 or so GBs that lived in the second generation, and those numbers were even worse for generation 3 incubation, so I just decided to eat the second generations birds and see how the WR and NH do.

Ginger Broiler processed weights and experiences for 1st generation GBs: https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...tage-crosses-meat-birds.1612476/post-27515247

Ginger Broiler processing challenge and pressure cooking issue thread here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...g-where-did-i-go-wrong.1607990/#post-27405672

The CX were hands-down the best meat producer, and I liked them, but they were definitely management intensive, and processing 21 birds all by myself at once with no plucker took way too much time when I still have a 40 hr a week day job and young kids to manage. I thought the White Ranger 3m broilers would be a good compromise - almost as much meat with increased livability and flexibility on processing date. I also wanted to see how a dual purpose bird optimized for meat like the FR NH would turn out.

I've made a number of posts regarding these topics on other people's threads, and a few of my own, and have received a few requests to consolidate things, so here it is in one location, to the best of my memory, mainly focused on the White Rangers and New Hampshires and how they are working out.

Caveats: I'm not great with putting birds on scales, so most of my weights are estimates. I'm more concerned with getting a population of meat birds that I can hatch from and keep going over multiple generations than getting every ounce of meat that I can out of them - there's a tradeoff between size and health that I'm investigating. I haven't kept meticulous feed records to the gram/lb. But hopefully my general observations will be helpful and give others an idea of what to try themselves.

White Rangers and New Hampshires

I'm currently raising a batch of White Rangers and New Hampshires from Freedom Ranger Hatchery that hatched March 11, then shipped from FR hatchery to North Alabama, USA. No delays in shipping, all arrived healthy. FR put in one extra WR and 2 extra NH. I added my 4 home bred/incubated/hatched olive eggers to the brooder with them, since they were only a week older. Raised six of the combined chickens in a large 30 gallon tote with hardware cloth lid, and the rest of them in a 48"L x 30"W x 32" H wire mesh dog crate (zip tied old plastic feed bags to the inside of the crate over the entire bottom and about 1/3 of the way up the sides to keep in the shavings, and set the crate pan on top so it would hold the shavings. Everything fit really tightly, and I'd scoop out the shavings with a dust pan every 2-3 days.) Used heat lamps for both brooders, brooded in my garage on pine shavings until 4 weeks, then put them out in my covered run on several inches of mulch from a tree service. I don't have coops, since my climate doesn't require it, so they perch on a branch or on top of isolation cages within the covered run at night time.

I favor 5 gallon buckets with nipple waterers for chickens 4 wks and older. Also all my egger feed is 20% chick starter, unmedicated, usually Dumor, occasionally Purina or Nurture Right if I can afford it. Had FR birds vaccinated for coccidiosis and Mereks, just for the heck of it at the hatchery. At 5 weeks or so treated all my coops, including the meat birds, with CORID - it really firmed up their poops.

I'd heard that WR and these NH were more hardy than CX, but in some ways this doesn't appear to be the case. I've had one varus/valgus deformity in the NH, and multiple cases of "angel wing" in both breeds. They're 11 weeks now and still moving very well, so that's good, but the WR have the same habit that CX have of sitting on their hocks/bellies all day. The NH are doing much the same thing, but aren't quite as big, maybe 20-30% smaller at this point. The WR grow almost as fast as CX but not quite. They may turn out to be something I can breed, which is one thing I was looking for, if I keep them on 20% protein, we'll just have to see. Both of these breeds appear to be good candidates for keeping on no more than 20% protein feed through processing in order to have breeding stock.

For the CX I raised, I'd restricted meat bird feed (23-24% protein) 12hr on 12 hr off from day one to 4 weeks, then switched to unlimited 23-24% meat bird feed (they ate only during daylight, and we had about 12 hrs of daylight so I didn't bother pulling the food) from 4 wks until harvest at 5-9 wks.

For these NH and WR, they had 20% chick starter for the first two weeks, then 23-24% meat bird feed until 4-5 weeks, with a couple of days of 20% here and there when I ran out of meat bird feed, then I started seeing the varus/valgus deformity and "angel wing" (Emergency Forum post here for exact details and dates: https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...hampshire-can-i-fix-it.1621937/#post-27726267 ), so I put them all back on the 20% chick starter after I saw the angel wing. (Emergency Forum thread on angel wing here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...e-rangers-wondering-causes-solutions.1624071/ ) I processed the NH with Varus/valgus deformity around 6 weeks because I thought it was a slipped tendon or something and he was in pain, but it turned out to be varus/valgus birth defect - the joint was fine but the leg grew at a 35 degree angle towards the outside of the bird.

I also processed one of the WR at around 5 wks, and it made a nice 4+ lb carcass, delicious oven roast chicken at 300F. The 5 wk NH was maybe 1-2 lbs, not worth processing if I hadn't thought he was in pain.

I've seen no signs of the WR or NH getting stuck on their backs, no heart attacks, no circulation issues (purple comb), all of which I saw in CX, and the WR and NH are still flying up on top of a 4ft tall dog crate isolation cage in order to sleep. They also fly up and perch on their 5 gallon bucket waterer and feeder. So they're not perching on 3" diameter tree branches, but I'm surprised they can fly up there to sleep on top of the dog crate on their bellies (the dog crate pan is placed on top of the cage, so it's a big flat surface. The CX had trouble going over sticks or changes in elevation in the covered run, but these both seem to be doing fine. They both walk like meat birds, and the WR def look like CX, but besides the angel wing and varus/valgus deformity, they have been more healthy than the CX.

I've got two NH over in another coop that have been on 20% protein from day one, and they are about 30% slimmer, and just look like large eggers rather than meat birds. So that would be a good way to raise breeding stock, and then use descendants for meat.

Both NH and WR are a bit skittish, but there's at least a couple who like me and don't mind being petted, the WR more than the NH. I plan to keep back a few hens and a roo of each and see how that goes.

The NH could use another month or two to give a 7 lb or so bird, but the WR are ready now. I'll work on processing them over the next month. The WR have just started to crow, and I think a couple of the NH also. Could get noisy soon.

I've been raising them all together, about 10 NH and 10 WR in with 4 of my adult eggers in 150 sq ft covered run. I was hoping my egger hens could teach the roos some manners. My eggers are still top hens but have been a bit stressed at the space limitations this past month, and will be happy to see many of the meat birds go. I wouldn't raise the meat birds in any smaller of an area. The poo load has been slightly less than 21 CX in the same area. They drink a full 5 gallon bucket nipple waterer worth of water per day, and consume at least 15 lbs(?) or so of feed (estimate). I need to verify how much my hanging feeder holds - we fill it daily, and they have a 5 gallon bucket with two PVC pipe feed ports as backup.

The White Rangers are slightly less obsessed with food than the CX were, and have some ability to wait in line - the CX would all push in at once and slice up each others' rear ends with their claws, and were absolutely RAVENOUS all the time. The WR would also scatter back as chicks, where the CX wouldn't - you had to physically move them out of your way to put a waterer or feeder in the brooder or you'd squish a chick. So it was nice that both the NH and WR behaved like normal chickens in that respect. They both scatter as adults too, but you may have to tap them with your foot. The WR have feathered out better than the CX, but still have the typical CX feathering pattern and body shape, very low # feathers and many naked areas. They look like CX, but are definitely a 3m broiler instead based on how quickly the weight goes on them.

The NH have pronounced wing claws, which I didn't expect, as I thought this physical characteristic was generally rare except for CX. Wondering if they're pure NH? They don't look like they're a mix, but I've never had regular NH before to compare to. At some point I'll try and get some pictures to load up on here.

Hope this is helpful to someone. I'll update periodically, and try to get better about obtaining live and carcass weights.

Hi! I am contemplating on getting WR chics but I would like to know if their poop is smelly like the CX which I hated to raise because of this.

 

[FunClucks]

Hi! I am contemplating on getting WR chics but I would like to know if their poop is smelly like the CX which I hated to raise because of this.

They have larger poops because they are larger chickens. But I think their poops were more like normal chickens than CX poops. I found CX often had looser poops with more undigested? food. Give the WR a try and see what you think. I found that the brand of food had an impact on how poops smell, because different brands of food and protein levels smell differently, but really most of it was the substrate used, and how it decomposed or didn't when presented with the poop, and how much poop to substrate was used.

So if you have smell issues, I'd try changing your substrate and the brand of food. I had a few meat birds that I had to go from wood chips in a covered run to pine shavings changed daily (had a weather event and coop collapse and moved them into my garage in crates for a bit, changed substrate 2x daily). The ginger broiler roos I processed after about 4 weeks on pine shavings while feeding 20% chick starter had none of the smell that CX or GB raised on wood chips in my covered run had. Much better smell. I can't afford 100% wood chips and changing 2x a day in their main setup, but it was interesting to learn how much of a difference the bacteria in the wood chips, or wood chips had on the smell of the birds I was processing.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I didn't have many Cx, and when I did, I noted they basically didn't move even while most of my other birds free ranged, so their fecals tended to concentrate in one area. I found leaf litter - and lots of it - successful in managing smells.

That said, Cx are raised on a high CP diet, and waste protein is excreted daily, largely in the form of nitrates and the well known compound, Ammonia. CP, of course, is composed of amino acids. When the amino acids are well balanced to the chicken's need, there is very little waste, and thus, fewer nitrates and ammonia compounds to create an offensive odor. When its not well balanced, there can be a lot of waste crude protein, which costs you money, and they can't actually use.

Look for a feed high in methionine. With roughly 2.5ish x more Lysine than Met. Met is analogous to the engine on a train. (Almost) No protein is formed w/o starting w/ Met. And just like a train, after the engine is done assembling the train, it can decouple and move on to a fresh set of boxcars - which is why more Lys is needed than Met.

But the thing about amino acids and crude protein is that, unlike fat/carbs (energy), birds really don't store it against future use. They use it to build body, make repairs, and excrete the rest. So if you have a feed that's high in crude protein, but low in Met, you end up with a trainyard full of boxcars, with no way to assemble them into trains. They get pushed out of the way to make room for the next day's proteins. You get smell.

and since you will never get it perfect - their needs are changing daily, after all - using a litter system that helps rapidly compost waste will help with odor some.

and if it gets wet. IT STINKS. So make sure your coop and run are high ground that drains rapidly.

My opinion only, backed by only a few Cx ever owned, and a bit of science. Feel free to disregard.

 

[FunClucks]

White Ranger Update as of 11/21/2024:

I still have one White Ranger roo and one White Ranger hen. I tried to keep two hens, but one died due to heat exposure and probably stress from getting bullied by some of my other chickens that I didn't catch in time to separate them. May have had an underlying issue, I don't know. They are both huge. Like 16" in width and at least that long, really heavy birds, probably 10-12 lbs. I will weigh them at some point.

I did a chicken inspection this weekend and neither of them had bumble foot, leg or foot issues, ascites, or anything else I could see. Still in good health although huge. Had to separate the female about 2 months back as she was getting cut on her side from the rooster's claws/spurs, which actually aren't very long. She was too big for the chicken saddles I had available. For a while I was getting white eggs from WR, but either the hens got too big, or she's taking an extended break, or the hen who was actually laying is the one who died, as I haven't seen eggs for about 3 months. Her comb is red, so she should be laying, but no eggs.

I think the roo may be too big to actually fertilize anyone. He sleeps on the floor of the run, doesn't fly up onto anything in the covered run. We have 1.5 ft tall large stumps and an XXL dog crate for them to perch on top of. I wouldn't recommend trying to keep these back as part of a flock, although you might be able to get a few eggs from the hens before issues commence, and if you have a smaller, non-White Ranger roo, that might work to get some babies off them.

New Hampshire Update 11/21/2024:

I have one NH roo and at least 5 hens left. All feet and legs look good, had to separate or put chicken saddles on all the hens since roo was starting to cut their sides. His claws and spurs are trimmed short, so I just think it's a function of the configuration of their backs. I rehomed the other 5 hens since I had too many but didn't want to eat them. They are nice and large, and will be good eating. About 2/3 to 3/4 the size of the White Rangers. Hens are still laying sporadically, although I've had at least one of them molt. I had two roos for the longest time, but rehomed one, and now the remaining White Ranger is in with the NH roo, and they're getting along well, probably because the WR can't get around too much or mate the hens much, although he tries. NH has been docile so far to me and the kids, hoping the trend continues. The other NH roo we had for a while was less docile, but he was in with two other roos and was a teenager, so he may have settled down if by himself or when older, don't know.

 

[FunClucks]

Update on Ginger Broilers 11/22/24:

I have 2 hens left. One has come down with water belly. I haven't seen ascites before, but based on what I'm feeling that's what she's got. It's in somewhat early stages. I'll try and process her before winter fully hits but we'll see if I manage it. She'll need to be pressure cooked for sure. No bumblefoot in either of these hens, for what it's worth, and they're probably about 9 lbs live weight. Otherwise, they're both in good health, haven't molted yet this year, and based on comb color should be laying still, but if they are it's only sporadically.