Mix and Matches Breeding Project Thread

[Sneebsey]

It's a shame brahmas don't come in white...

I believe that they do, though are rare. I wouldn't worry, as once recessive white is introduced, it is not too difficult to keep in. The only issue is that as it is recessive white @cyrus will want (to ensure a nice clean white), during the beginning of the project, none of the birds will be white, but hopefully all or most ought to carry it, so will produce at least some white offspring once they are bred together.

Speaking of white, how does it work? What is dominant white vrs just. . . White?
I ask because I wonder if crossing Nardole over the two brownish hens would result in chicks more like their mother, or more like Nardy boy?

Dominant White is incomplete dominant and only really effects eumelanin (black pigment). Red Pyle is bred using Dominant White. The gene in its single-factor form allows some patches of eumelanin to show through; when bred to be pure for Extended Black on the e-locus, this is called Paint.

White Leghorns are Dominant White, and I often note that they are a less white white than a Recessive White bird.

Noticeable pigment holes in single-factor Dominant White; all four white hens in this picture are Araucana x RSL; I particularly like the significant amount of black leaking through on Spock's back.

Recessive White is recessive, and effects both eumelanin and pheomelanin. A bird with two copies of recessive white is pure white, regardless of what other genes they may have. A single copy of the gene does not alter the plumage at all; you won't know it's there.

Bright white in a Recessive White Silkie mix

 

[Sneebsey]

My guess would be that Nardole is Recessive White as he does not show any other colour; although you can't see it in the photo of my Leghorn mix hen, Lillian; though she is pure for Dominant White, she shows yellowish tones in the neck.

If this is the case, then what is underneath that white is completely unknown. Having bred my Silkie mix above, I know he has silver and is wildtype (probably with a few other genes going on); without Recessive White, he may have looked like a Silver Duckwing cockerel.

Your red and blue EE hen (who is absolutely lovely, btw) appears to have Melanotic, Colombian, probably Mahogany. She is likely on a Partridge e-series. She reminds me very much of Vorwerk in her colouration, though does not have the same buff tones.

 

[Dona Worry]

White is the epistasis of all color, meaning it covers color.
A bird with two copies of dominant white could be hiding any colors but appear white.
Recessive white is the inhibition of all color. A bird with two copies of rec. White will be the purest white because no other color can be present genotypically.
Polish have dominant white. Crossing Nardole with your brown hens will result in mostly white birds with some color leakage.

Nardole has a few streaks of black in his tail feathers and hackles.

 

[Cyprus]

Nardole has a few streaks of black in his tail feathers and hackles.

Which would make sense with dominant white.
Who knows what he is hiding

 

[Sneebsey]

Nardole has a few streaks of black in his tail feathers and hackles.

Ah! Then he is Dominant White! In that case, he is Extended Black, as Dominant White only effects eumelanin (black pigment). All offspring from him will be Extended Black, hiding the Partridge (or whatever) from the mother, but showing leakage of the groundcolour (gold/silver). Though he shows black, I would hazard that he is pure for Dominant White regardless; I would expect a noticeable amount of black in a single-factor bird, as you see in my hens. With that in mind, all (or half, if he is single factor; the rest will be black) will be single-factor Dominant White and will express in a similar manner to my hens. The Melanotic from the EE hen will likely repress some of the leakage from her groundcolour, therefore you may see less gold leakage than I do in mine, though similar amounts of black.

 

[Dona Worry]

Your red and blue EE hen (who is absolutely lovely, btw) appears to have Melanotic, Colombian, probably Mahogany. She is likely on a Partridge e-series. She reminds me very much of Vorwerk in her colouration, though does not have the same buff tones.

Isn't she just?? She is easily my prettiest hen. I'd take ten of her.
Her and Rory would make the prettiest babies, but she seems to have attracted herself to Nardole so much I don't think we'll ever find out!

 

[Dona Worry]

Ah! Then he is Dominant White! In that case, he is Extended Black, as Dominant White only effects eumelanin (black pigment). All offspring from him will be Extended Black, hiding the Partridge (or whatever) from the mother, but showing leakage of the groundcolour (gold/silver). Though he shows black, I would hazard that he is pure for Dominant White regardless; I would expect a noticeable amount of black in a single-factor bird, as you see in my hens. With that in mind, all (or half, if he is single factor; the rest will be black) will be single-factor Dominant White and will express in a similar manner to my hens. The Melanotic from the EE hen will likely repress some of the leakage from her groundcolour, therefore you may see less gold leakage than I do in mine, though similar amounts of black.

So Nardole x Clara would = something mostly black, maybe with some streaks? Sort of similar in color to a black star female?

 

[Sneebsey]

Isn't she just?? She is easily my prettiest hen. I'd take ten of her.
Her and Rory would make the prettiest babies, but she seems to have attracted herself to Nardole so much I don't think we'll ever find out!

Is Rory the EE? In which case, I would be breeding the two together in a heartbeat; they are very similar in many ways.

So Nardole x Clara would = something mostly black, maybe with some streaks? Sort of similar in color to a black star female?

Mostly black, yes, but diluted to White by Nardole's Dominant White.

A clearer photo, showing the red in the necks of the two hens at right of frame. I would expect a similar plumage to the front right hen, due to the melanisers from Clara.

 

[Dona Worry]

A picture showing the black streak in his tail. The black in his hackles is similar, but so buried it's hard to see unless you are plucking burrs out of it for the hundredth time!

 

[Dona Worry]

Is Rory the EE? In which case, I would be breeding the two together in a heartbeat; they are very similar in many ways.



Mostly black, yes, but diluted to White by Nardole's Dominant White.

View attachment 1581158
A clearer photo, showing the red in the necks of the two hens at right of frame. I would expect a similar plumage to the front right hen, due to the melanisers from Clara.

These are beautiful hens!