need advice on how to manage rooster fighting

[Toffael]

This is my first year owning chickens. I have two young roosters, each around six months old, who grew up together as buddies without any issues, along with two hens. (in photo during younger days)

Eight weeks ago, I introduced them to my existing flock of eight hens, bringing the total flock to two roosters and ten hens. That integration was successful albeit, inevitably created rooster leadership issues.

Stripey, the smaller rooster, seems to have hit puberty first. He’s been crowing for about three months and shows strong leadership and protective behavior toward the hens. He’s alert , protective, an organiser, , with a wonderful vibrant and happy personality—definitely my favorite.

Ebony, a larger rooster, started crowing three weeks ago and seems to have began trying to assert himself as flock leader. Over the last few days, he’s been initiating fights with Stripey. I noticed Stripey had minor bloody injuries on his face and comb from a fight 3 days ago, and when they free-range 2 days ago, Ebony continues to chase and attack him. Stripey has started to submit and flee from Ebony rather than engage. I also noticed yesterday that after a few half hearted chases, Ebony didn’t pursue stripy any further.

Using guidance from many discussions in this group, to give both of them a break, I separated Ebony into his own run/cop for a day, out of sight of main run, but still in audio reach. When I let them free-range again, I noticed that Stripey no longer tried to fight back; he’d immediately submit and run when Ebony chased him.

Yesterday I placed Ebony in a separate caged area within the main run (with two hens for company), so everyone could see and hear each other but they slept apart. Stripey stayed in the coop.

Today, when I let them all out together to free-range, there was no fighting, but I noticed Stripey seemed different—subdued, lethargic, and lacking his usual energy. He even refused mealworms from my hand, which is unusual for him. He seemed ‘defeated’. i felt really sad for him and about the whole situation, as Stripy is the first chicken i’ve ever got emotionally attached to and wanted him to be flock leader.

To be fair to Ebony, given he’s matured later, he hasn’t had a chance yet to show his leadership skills, nor has he ever been vicious, or nasty, simply just acting on his ingrained instincts.

I have some questions:

1. Has Stripey fully submitted to Ebony, and has Ebony accepted this? I read that if a rooster fight draws blood, it’s rarely solvable?

2. If I let them sleep together in the coop, will Ebony leave Stripey alone?

3. If Ebony is now the dominant rooster, I’ll accept it, but I’m feeling sad for Stripey, who was always my beautiful, confident boy. What does his future look like within this flock?

4. i noticed that Stripy was still mating with some of the hens today, while Ebony was also doing same. what does that indicate?

5. How can I tell if Ebony is a good leader for the flock, and what will Stripey’s future role be and will he regain his previous positive personality

 

[Debbie292d]

That's a great picture!!

You have enough hens for them to each have their own ladies so that's one thing going for them. Ours just work it out amongst themselves.

Sometimes I see hens with a different rooster but that only lasts a week, then back they go to their original rooster. The roosters chase each other off "their hens," and it seems everyone learns how far they can push each other. Each rooster is responsible for the hens they have.

I have a lot of roosters, and recently we've had one hen with two roosters. She's molting so they both leave her alone, but the three of them free range together.

The only time I've seen blood drawn, it was horrible, and we got rid of that rooster.

They should be able to be in the coop together at night. Even when we've got two of them fighting, it's like they give up when dusk hits.

I think if you can give it time, they should work this out and each have their own hens, no matter how they split it up.

 

[FlockVillemaire]

As an almost 3-year newbie, I am also just adding roosters this year. I ordered one definite cockerel (an Alchemist Blue), lucked out with the S/R Black Copper Marans I truly wanted, then was surprise-gifted an additional S/R "Alchemist Egger" all from Alchemist Farms near Sebastopol, California, so got 3 (out of 6 chicks), not just 1 or 2. These brood bros all sleep tightly together at 7 months old. Arnaud, the smallest, an Alchemist Egger had crowed at just 7 weeks, then mounted at 8! So he is very well established, and even when recently challenged by my much larger/months later maturing Alchemist Blue, he strongly stood his ground, chased him down and forced him to submit, luckily with very little blood, and Gandalf was a bit dejected. I also put him in "prison" for better protection for a day, then all seems normal again. Gentlest BCM Nico never challenged Arnaud, that I've seen, though Nico & Gandy have challenged eachother.

Cooping them up in smaller spaces is much more dangerous than letting them be able to hide/run away from the top roo, if necessary. In the wild, they do not fight to the death, but if not enough space that happens with our domesticated boys! Even if they re-establish a happy level of comfort with eachother, that can change in a moment, so making sure there is an escape is critical. Most only keep a single roo for that issue.

My concern for you, is that everything I've read/watched recommends 8 - 10 hens per rooster to make them all happy. Brood bros, related or not, are the likeliest to get along, but only if they all have enough hen action? Can you possibly expand your flock? (I scrambled to get more pullets to increase my chances of success. I have just enough space for them all, but still need a third coop!) I hope to do "Spiral Breeding" using a separate breeding pen to enclose certain specific, widely varied breed hens with a particular roo for a 1.5 - 2 month breeding/laying time, then finding one of my likely broodies to hatch them for me.

 

[Perris]

This is my first year owning chickens. I have two young roosters, each around six months old, who grew up together as buddies without any issues, along with two hens. (in photo during younger days)

Eight weeks ago, I introduced them to my existing flock of eight hens, bringing the total flock to two roosters and ten hens. That integration was successful albeit, inevitably created rooster leadership issues.

Stripey, the smaller rooster, seems to have hit puberty first. He’s been crowing for about three months and shows strong leadership and protective behavior toward the hens. He’s alert , protective, an organiser, , with a wonderful vibrant and happy personality—definitely my favorite.

Ebony, a larger rooster, started crowing three weeks ago and seems to have began trying to assert himself as flock leader. Over the last few days, he’s been initiating fights with Stripey. I noticed Stripey had minor bloody injuries on his face and comb from a fight 3 days ago, and when they free-range 2 days ago, Ebony continues to chase and attack him. Stripey has started to submit and flee from Ebony rather than engage. I also noticed yesterday that after a few half hearted chases, Ebony didn’t pursue stripy any further.

Using guidance from many discussions in this group, to give both of them a break, I separated Ebony into his own run/cop for a day, out of sight of main run, but still in audio reach. When I let them free-range again, I noticed that Stripey no longer tried to fight back; he’d immediately submit and run when Ebony chased him.

Yesterday I placed Ebony in a separate caged area within the main run (with two hens for company), so everyone could see and hear each other but they slept apart. Stripey stayed in the coop.

Today, when I let them all out together to free-range, there was no fighting, but I noticed Stripey seemed different—subdued, lethargic, and lacking his usual energy. He even refused mealworms from my hand, which is unusual for him. He seemed ‘defeated’. i felt really sad for him and about the whole situation, as Stripy is the first chicken i’ve ever got emotionally attached to and wanted him to be flock leader.

To be fair to Ebony, given he’s matured later, he hasn’t had a chance yet to show his leadership skills, nor has he ever been vicious, or nasty, simply just acting on his ingrained instincts.

I have some questions:

1. Has Stripey fully submitted to Ebony, and has Ebony accepted this? I read that if a rooster fight draws blood, it’s rarely solvable?

2. If I let them sleep together in the coop, will Ebony leave Stripey alone?

3. If Ebony is now the dominant rooster, I’ll accept it, but I’m feeling sad for Stripey, who was always my beautiful, confident boy. What does his future look like within this flock?

4. i noticed that Stripy was still mating with some of the hens today, while Ebony was also doing same. what does that indicate?

5. How can I tell if Ebony is a good leader for the flock, and what will Stripey’s future role be and will he regain his previous positive personalityView attachment 3974442

The birds' relationships are dynamic, not static, and it is the hens who choose the roos, not vice versa. So things can and will change, and they are both still young.

In my experience - I currently have 4 adult roos plus 2 youngsters growing up within the flock - the one showing dominance now is likely to remain dominant. Here that just means that the subordinates give way before him at mealtimes, emerging from the coops in the morning, and going into the coops at night. The rest of the time he doesn't throw his weight around and they don't provoke. My no.2 is more popular with the hens than the dominant and appears to have sired more of this year's offspring (you mentioned they are both mating; again it's the hens who choose whose sperm to keep). My no.3 is least popular, but seems finally to be twigging on that the way to reproduce his genes is to be nice to the hens, not bossy. His hatch-mate, no.4, is more popular than he is though lower in the rankings; he is more attentive to the hens.

The 6 males share 4 coops, sorting out between themselves each night who's sleeping where, and half the coops typically have 2 adult roos in them - and these are small 'just for sleeping and laying in' type coops. Occasionally there is a ruckus after I've shut the doors and very occasionally blood is drawn, but it seems no worse than a chicken equivalent of a typical human falling out and brawl. No-one has suffered life-changing injuries or has obvious scarring. And they all work together to keep the flock safe. E.g. here (poor quality photo cos taken through a window and on a misty day)

PS there are 17 mature, happy and healthy hens here, so I wouldn't worry about those much higher hen : roo ratios apparently commonly touted on the internet.

 

[Chubbicthe2nd]

This is all very reassuring, we raised 10 little hatched chicks, let them free range from pretty early on, all different breeds. We lost my favorite to a coyote, and currently have four hens and five roosters. They're all brood Brothers of course, and at the moment they have a free ranging bachelor flock because we locked up the hens to avoid fights or over mating. Oh poor little hands are only cooped at the moment, we are hoping to give them back their freedom soon.

So the plan was to buy 16 more laying pullets around their age (they're all 6 months), and then butcher a few of our roosters. We're hoping to keep three roosters, but I was wondering if only two would be better?

Right now our alpha is a blue Australorp who I love dearly (he matured faster than the rest of them, and protected all of them growing up, he would fluff up his feathers and all of them would nestle underneath his wings during the night, and he was always making sure they got good scraps, etc).

Of our four other roosters, we have one Old English game, one Old English game x Sussex cross, one Rhode Island red, and one Rhode Island red x Easter egger cross.

We were thinking of butchering the two Rhode Island Reds since people said RIRs roosters tend to get more human aggressive. But should we butcher the old English game too? I was a little nervous since his breed was originally bred for cockfighting, but I guess that was 170 years ago...

Anyways, do you think 20 hens would be enough for three roosters if they were brood brothers?

Any thoughts?

 

[Perris]

@Chubbicthe2nd I would not base any decision on the breed and supposed breed characteristics. Birds are individuals, and their characters will show as they grow up. It will reflect their keeping conditions of course - as you recognized by separating them into a bachelor flock.

The hens choose the roos. Each roo will be more or less attractive to each of the hens, and if you let them mingle you will see who likes whom. Roos will have favourites too, and won't mate some hens just (or even) because they can. I respect the chickens' choices and don't impose my own on my birds, so my advice is for you to do the same.

 

[Debbie292d]

This is all very reassuring, we raised 10 little hatched chicks, let them free range from pretty early on, all different breeds. We lost my favorite to a coyote, and currently have four hens and five roosters. They're all brood Brothers of course, and at the moment they have a free ranging bachelor flock because we locked up the hens to avoid fights or over mating. Oh poor little hands are only cooped at the moment, we are hoping to give them back their freedom soon.

So the plan was to buy 16 more laying pullets around their age (they're all 6 months), and then butcher a few of our roosters. We're hoping to keep three roosters, but I was wondering if only two would be better?

Right now our alpha is a blue Australorp who I love dearly (he matured faster than the rest of them, and protected all of them growing up, he would fluff up his feathers and all of them would nestle underneath his wings during the night, and he was always making sure they got good scraps, etc).

Of our four other roosters, we have one Old English game, one Old English game x Sussex cross, one Rhode Island red, and one Rhode Island red x Easter egger cross.

We were thinking of butchering the two Rhode Island Reds since people said RIRs roosters tend to get more human aggressive. But should we butcher the old English game too? I was a little nervous since his breed was originally bred for cockfighting, but I guess that was 170 years ago...

Anyways, do you think 20 hens would be enough for three roosters if they were brood brothers?

Any thoughts?

I couldn't speak to your breeds as I only raise silkies but to me it shouldn't matter much what breed they are anyway, as long as they are a good rooster. What's a good rooster? Well, one that doesn't attack humans, cause unnecessary harm to hens, fighting constantly, etc., and will hopefully warn the rest that there is danger nearby.

I think 20 hens for 3 roosters is a great ratio though no matter what they are!

 

[Atchurch]

This is all very reassuring, we raised 10 little hatched chicks, let them free range from pretty early on, all different breeds. We lost my favorite to a coyote, and currently have four hens and five roosters. They're all brood Brothers of course, and at the moment they have a free ranging bachelor flock because we locked up the hens to avoid fights or over mating. Oh poor little hands are only cooped at the moment, we are hoping to give them back their freedom soon.

So the plan was to buy 16 more laying pullets around their age (they're all 6 months), and then butcher a few of our roosters. We're hoping to keep three roosters, but I was wondering if only two would be better?

Right now our alpha is a blue Australorp who I love dearly (he matured faster than the rest of them, and protected all of them growing up, he would fluff up his feathers and all of them would nestle underneath his wings during the night, and he was always making sure they got good scraps, etc).

Of our four other roosters, we have one Old English game, one Old English game x Sussex cross, one Rhode Island red, and one Rhode Island red x Easter egger cross.

We were thinking of butchering the two Rhode Island Reds since people said RIRs roosters tend to get more human aggressive. But should we butcher the old English game too? I was a little nervous since his breed was originally bred for cockfighting, but I guess that was 170 years ago...

Anyways, do you think 20 hens would be enough for three roosters if they were brood brothers?

Any thoughts?

I hatched 4 eggs in an incubator nearly 18 weeks ago. Three are roosters and one beautiful little girl. The three boys just started crowing 3 days ago and when I looked out at them about 20 minutes ago, one was fighting one of his brood-brother hatchling mates. So, I got one of them out and separated him. Then, within a couple of minutes, the same aggressor went after his other brother. So, I got that one out and put him with the first one. OKAY, so now...those two weren't fighting each other at all, so I went back in and got the aggressive one, put the other two back with the 10 girls and left the bad boy in one run alone. He drew blood on both of the others, so I guess we know who has to go. He is the one that my husband thought was the prettiest so it's gonna be hard. I like all three and they're still young so they're not aggressive to us at all. But this is part of it when you hatch too many roos, I guess.

I was thinking that two roosters for 10 girls would be fine for fertilization purposes, and knew that 3 boys for the 10 girls was just TOO many. It still may be too many with the two, but we'll see how it goes. I would prefer 10 girls for each, but I don't have that many yet.

 

[aart]

I would prefer 10 girls for each

...and that's no guarantee that the two won't fight or over-mate the girls.

 

[Atchurch]

...and that's no guarantee that the two won't fight or over-mate the girls.

Oh yes! So true! Our other rooster, that was aggressive with us and a neighbor lady, wore the feathers off one of the girls when he was the only boy and had 9 girls to himself. Lol. He's the dad of my new 4, but he's gone now because he was so mean. Drew blood on the neighbor once.