new research debunks trad views on nutrition

[Perris]

What has been the history of land use where you are?
I am no expert - particularly not regarding chickens - but I was fortunate to have a mother who was a bit ahead (or perhaps behind) the times and was an enthusiastic gardener.
From her I learned many techniques that would fit with your land philosophy. But if relevance she taught me the regenerative powers of the earth if managed well.
Totally not scientific, she never tested anything, but for example she showed me how the patch of earth left undisturbed under the leaf pile or compost heap for a year or two would transform into this rich, black loam that was the best place to sow the next season’s veggies. Or how the ‘dead animals’ burying ground always had the lushest growth around it.
Long-winded way of saying that you shouldn’t assume your pasture is lacking nutrients unless you know it has been badly treated.

exactly. And even if it has, regenerative agriculture is all about bringing it back to a state of health, and it can be accomplished in a couple of years.

 

[RememberTheWay]

This applies to crops grown through conventional agriculture: highly selected varieties chosen for yield above all other considerations, in dead soil, and fed just NPK. It does not apply to the world in general and unfarmed land or land farmed in a regenerative way in particular. Individual soils may be deficient in one or a handful of minerals because of the rock on which and out of which they are formed, but that can be supplemented as necessary.

Only if you have to buy food and feed grown conventionally.
Organic is included in conventional btw, since they copy a lot of the same practices, just with inputs certified organic. But I'm sure you know that already.

Actually in my opinion in applies to much more then that. One run off happens and contaminates or locks up soil not just on that farmland. And it applies to my land directly one because even though I don't conventional farm here and I only have 3.5 acres, it was part of conventional ag prior to me owning it and 2, I live in farm country and am completely boxed in by conventional farmers. I do what I can to mitigate but they also started delivering their inputs by air and fly directly over my property at times and seem to not have good control of the sprayer and have sprayed my property and livestock areas before.

 

[RememberTheWay]

What has been the history of land use where you are?
I am no expert - particularly not regarding chickens - but I was fortunate to have a mother who was a bit ahead (or perhaps behind) the times and was an enthusiastic gardener.
From her I learned many techniques that would fit with your land philosophy. But if relevance she taught me the regenerative powers of the earth if managed well.
Totally not scientific, she never tested anything, but for example she showed me how the patch of earth left undisturbed under the leaf pile or compost heap for a year or two would transform into this rich, black loam that was the best place to sow the next season’s veggies. Or how the ‘dead animals’ burying ground always had the lushest growth around it.
Long-winded way of saying that you shouldn’t assume your pasture is lacking nutrients unless you know it has been badly treated.

And I one hundred percent agree with your mother.

Regarding the history of this land in particular, I know it was part of tobacco farming. But feed corn and soy are farmed on the tracts I share a property line with.

 

[RememberTheWay]

exactly. And even if it has, regenerative agriculture is all about bringing it back to a state of health, and it can be accomplished in a couple of years.

Can I ask about your experiences with regenerative ag? How long have you been practicing it and what kind of projects are you working on? Just curious

 

[Perris]

Can I ask about your experiences with regenerative ag? How long have you been practicing it and what kind of projects are you working on? Just curious

I don't do it. I don't need to. Normally I do not go in for long posts, but I think it's probably needed here to answer your question.

I have been living here for nearly 30 years and stopped using chemicals in year 2. I leave most of the ground alone most of the time. I plant into planting holes. I don't turn anything over, and destroy the soil structure by so doing, unless absolutely necessary. I clear away only excessive detritus at the end of the growing season, and then only after leaving it where it fell for a while, to let whatever was living in it find a new home. Certainly anything with a seed head gets left; those seeds will feed the chickens and other creatures over winter. I have small piles of cut wood of various diameters in nooks and crannies all around the property; they are home to various insects, reptiles and amphibians, and various funga. I only reduce weeds that grow excessively, like brambles (but I still leave an area as a bramble patch, since that is perfect habitat for some species), or are highly toxic and could attract my granddaughter to eat it, like deadly nightshade.

There is a seasonal stream running through one corner of the property, and every year the autumn debris caused it to form a pond. One year - probably about 15 years ago now - I did not remove the obstruction, as I had been doing every autumn and winter before. The pond forms in a place that does no harm or inconvenience to anyone, and seasonal ponds support an ecosystem of their own. And it turned out that we, as well as the wildlife, benefited from this non-intervention: since then, the lane that gives access to this hamlet (a lane built on the natural drainage water channel between the fields) floods much less often.

The fields immediately around are grazed by sheep and cattle brought on and off in a way to manage the pasture on a permaculture basis, and they stopped being sprayed with herbicides and seasonally rolled about a decade ago. Some fields in the vicinity that are suitable for it are used to grow arable crops in a rotational system with sheep. I have seen tractors with sprayers on there occasionally, but I don't worry about it; it's very occasional, and there is nothing I can do about it anyway. I think a robust ecosystem can cope with an occasional assault.

My soil has got better year on year. The number of insects has increased year on year, despite the predation rate from my chickens - who of course deposit natural fertilizer as they go, foraging wherever they want on the property. The number of plants growing here, especially native wild ones, has increased significantly - some of those I introduced as seeds or plug plants, and those that suit the environment survive and spread. What was claggy yellow clay has turned into dark brown, deep, living humus-rich soil. The plants that grow in it look healthy and strong. The chickens thrive in this garden - since 2016 we've gone from 3 to 30, with all the younger ones raised by broodies, and out in the garden eating what they like from day 2. Some of the foundation stock are still thriving, still laying, still fertile.

And I have to do very little work for all this! Most of it is about letting go. Changing mindset. Stop trying to control everything; the garden can take better care of itself, usually. Our meddling and interference is what causes most of the problems. We do better as referees than as players, I think.

Of course, I am not trying to make a living from this - I am retired - but I could have made a decent income from selling birds as well as eggs. I have to limit the broodies and the size of their broods as I think we are near the carrying capacity of our land, and I don't want to have to go and buy a 5th coop I really don't see why someone couldn't have a successful business selling small numbers of high quality chickens raised in this way. Your customers may not be able to tell the quality of your eggs just from looking at the outside, but they sure can tell it with living birds. A healthy bird speaks for itself. E.g. this bird, who turned 2 in July, home born and bred, and never eaten a crumb of commercial feed, supplements, 'premix' or other ultra processed junk food for chickens, wormers, or other poisons sold in bottles, in his life. All he's eaten is real food and what he foraged here.

 

[saysfaa]

...
you *know* that what is available on your property is depleted? have you had it tested?

There are ways to tell what nutrients are not available to plants without having it tested.

"Not available" meaning not there, there but not usable due to pH levels, moisture levels, being in a less usable form, etc.

"Not there" meaning either "depleted" meaning were there and are now not there or never were there (the two are not quite the same thing).

"Tested" meaning sending samples to labs.

One way is by which plants are thriving, which are surviving without thriving, and which are missing. Also, when they are not thriving, what symptoms they have.

More info on reading weeds; an intro rather than very in depth
There are similar ways of reading which insects are thriving, or which fungi, etc - plant diseases don't necessarily mean the diseases are the problem. The root of the problem may be trying to grow a plant where it isn't getting what it needs.

That reading the weeds way is even more effective if you know what kind of soil you have, something of the geological history of the area and that soil specifically, and the history of the specific spot.

Sand dropped by glaciers (my current land) is far different than clay that came from decomposing limestone bedrock (much of the Great Plains). Both are much different than peat soil from drained fens or loam from river deltas.

If I leave my land alone, it reverts to the infertile sand and gravel it was before it was farmed. Which I know because most of it was left alone for about twenty years after being pastured for ten to forty years. I can tell by looking at it and by which weeds are growing and the soil has been tested many times with consistent results. My family sent the soil samples in to find out how much lime to spread, not whether it needed it. We get plenty of rain which dissolves the calcium which flows freely through the gravely sand. As the soil sours, many of the other nutrients are less available to most plants.

An example of "history of the specific spot" is my Grandpa knew why one section of his peach orchard was noticeably healthier and more productive than the rest - that was where the barnyard was of the farmstead that was otherwise completely gone by the time I was old enough to remember the field.

 

[Sally PB]

Thank you for the link on what the different weeds indicate about your soil, @saysfaa.

Reading my weeds tells me I need to pay attention to the calcium level of my soil.

 

[Molpet]

About how chemical used in plastic and DNA damage in round worms... which is similar to mammals
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-10-plastic-chemical-phthalate-dna-breakage.html

 

[Molpet]

Benefits of maple syrup instant of refined sugar
https://scitechdaily.com/reducing-a...er-surprising-health-benefits-of-maple-syrup/

 

[Perris]

good to see it benefits the microbiome too! "An unexpected discovery was the improved levels of potentially beneficial gut bacteria and a decrease in levels of potentially harmful gut bacteria in the maple syrup participants". And it tastes so much better than refined sugar