Pros and cons of organic vs nonorganic?

[youngchickdude]

Hi everyone, I just got five day old baby chicks and they are currently eating a conventional non-soy non-GMO starter feed. I'm an avid health nut and have been buying certified organic pasture raised eggs and personally believe they are the absolute best. What I want to know is what are the benefits of feeding chickens organic vs nonorganic food? The most obvious con of organic is the high price tag, which might not be that much of a big deal for me in some cases. When my chicks are grown I will have them in my backyard but they will not be fully "pasture raised." So along with the little bit of natural grasses and whatnot they will be eating, what difference in overall bird health and egg quality/nutritive value will be apparent between feeding them organic versus conventional feed? What are the best feeds on both ends of the spectrum? And other than feed, what sort of foods and treats will the chicks get the most health benefits from?

 

[chickengeorgeto]

.... What I want to know is what are the benefits of feeding chickens organic vs nonorganic food?...

The only scientific difference between GMO chicken food and Organic chicken food is whose bank account is flattened or fattened the most, your wallet (with non-organic) or a large corporate farm (in the case of many Organic farm products.) However in the case of GMO food there is significantly less pesticide residues in GMO food. There is zero logical reasons to forgo GM food especially for livestock.

I will go out on a limb here and say that a farmer growing GM crops will use 1/10 the amount of Pesticides that an Organic farmer uses and the few pesticides that a GM farmer uses will have a shorter half life in the environment.

The following link is a good read.

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html

 

[Cindy in PA]

The only scientific difference between GMO chicken food and Organic chicken food is whose bank account is flattened or fattened the most, your wallet (with non-organic) or a large corporate farm (in the case of many Organic farm products.) However in the case of GMO food there is significantly less pesticide residues in GMO food. There is zero logical reasons to forgo GM food especially for livestock.

I will go out on a limb here and say that a farmer growing GM crops will use 1/10 the amount of Pesticides that an Organic farmer uses and the few pesticides that a GM farmer uses will have a shorter half life in the environment.

The following link is a good read.

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html

The "study" is pretty heavy on generalization. Organic is not what it used to be since the government has bent the rules for mega corporations to get into the business. If you follow the old way touted by people like Eliot Coleman, you will get a healthier product with less pesticides. You have to decide what is important to you & research the companies you deal with or find someone local that you trust. I'm never sure if the constant bashing of organic on here is to make the people feel better about what they feed or what, but the generalizations & half truths are rampant at times against organic. All organic feeds I have tried have used ingredients equal & many times superior in my mind to conventional feed. It costs more & you have to decide if it's worth it to you.

 

[Gallo del Cielo]

Quote:

The link you provided is not a "study". It's a 20+ year old blog post by a student, with only a single reference (32 years old) to a real study.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

The link you provided is not a "study". It's a 20+ year old blog post by a student, with only a single reference (32 years old) to a real study.

Then please provide your own link that is also a scientific study and not an opinion or blog.

Also explain why the AMA refused to violate their scientific principles and condemn GMO foods. America's doctors should be the first to see any sickness, disease, or negative impacts on their patients caused by genetically improved food. Conversely Doctors should also be the first to notice any benefit derived by their patents from consuming Organic food.

Even if your accusations are true, then why has the Organic food production industry been sitting on their hands for 32 or 20 years without being able to refute even one FDA, EPA, and USDA study saying that GMO foods are safe? Surely there is not a global shortage of test tubes and Bunsen Burners? But there sure is a global dearth of scientific proof concerning any negative effects of GMOs on human health.

However there are reams and reams of infallible proof that the ANTI-GMO movement is shockingly unconcerned with human health, especially the health of innocent children.

I am speaking of Golden Rice a form of GM rice that has the promise... no the ability to eradicate vitamin A deficiency in the Third World. No one even wants to sell Golden Rice seeds to farmers in the Third World, the researchers want to give these life giving seeds away for free but they have been fighting a 14 year up hill battle to do so. Every year 2,000,000 poor children in Asia, Africa, and Latin America die and another 500,000 go blind because they don't get enough real vitamin A. Therefor in the last 14 years 28,000,000 children have died and another 7,000,000 have lost their eyesight because of the well fed First World's opposition to Golden Rice So my question is this, which one of this poor girl's eyes do the organic activist plan on bragging about poking out? I can hear it now, "Yea, I helped poked that eye ball out! Ain't it pretty?"

 

[Gallo del Cielo]

Warning, graphic images.

Quote:


I'm not making the argument, you are. I just pointed out that the link you provided was the opinion of some college student and not a serious critique of the issue.

 

[LovinMyPeeps]

Simple answer here would be "you are what you eat"... if you want to eat roundup... hey rock out with your bad self. Just because Monsanto and other large GMO producing corporations fail to acknowledge all of the potential problems inherent with GMO product and that our own government (USDA, FDA, etc) doesn't acknowledge the problems with GMO because they're so swayed by big business and their lobbying groups, doesn't mean they don't exist. If you're looking for a well written, well researched good read that is not a journal article I'd suggest perhaps starting with Omnivores Dilemma by Michael Pollan and go from there. Food chain dynamics DO effect our health and well being as for the argument for Golden Rice?? That's great, but in the long term they have their sight so they can perhaps enjoy watching the rest of their medical problems erupt from eating GMO crops?

 

[LovinMyPeeps]

You might want to read up on what "roundup ready corn" is... then argue the 1/10th of the pesticides. btw... organic farms don't use as much and certainly less harmful pesticides and most don't spray any kind of grain/cover crop... do your research and don't make assumptions...

Lovins- Owner of 90 acre ORGANIC farm.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

... organic farms don't use as much and certainly less harmful pesticides and most don't spray any kind of grain/cover crop...

I don't know of any farmer who spends his or her money or stays awake nights dreaming about spraying expensive crop inputs if it is not necessary. So no farmer either Organic or Non-organic is going to spray anything unless it is necessary. You seem to be saying the exact opposite.

But any farmer who has more than a hand full of acres and who will not even use deadly organic pesticides like powdered sulfur is going to be in a world of hurt when what ever trip or mite on their farm starts chewing on his crops. As an example, in the late 40s or early 50s up to 400,000,000 pounds of powdered sulfur was sprayed on cotton every year just to control spider mites. Powdered sulfur is a perfectly ligament organic pesticide but it alters the soil PH so radically that a counter application of agu-lime is almost mandatory the following spring to sweeten the soil.

The less harmful part of your post is unfortunately in the eye of the beholder and it means only what the beholder wishes it to mean.

Please excuse me, I forgot to post the links in my hurry to get to bed.

However it didn't take me long, only about two minutes to find this ad for a:

"PreEmergent Weed Suppressant & Slow Release Fertilizer An organic weed control and fertilizer for lawns and gardens. Completely natural, made from corn gluten and is harmless to people, pets, groundwater, insects and soil microorganisms. Corn gluten contains a natural allelopathic compound..."

allelopathic is a cuddly sounding word until you realize that "allelopathic" is an euphuism for a slow release non-specific plant poison.
http://lawncare.about.com/od/organiclawncare/a/corn_gluten.htm

There is an old saying that you can hear everything but "meat frying and money rattling" well I think that I just heard the money rattling as it pours into the above link.

I have been accused before of being an employee of Monsanto. It is untrue, but here is another link regarding so called corn gluten and its use as a pre emergent herbicide. People, you can't buy a more damning study on the effectiveness of an Organic pesticide than the one in this link from Oregon State University.
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/ga...l-did-not-prevent-weeds-germinating-osu-study

This is the kind of study I demand when I challenge my Organic friends for "proof." I expect to see real flesh and blood repeatable scientific experiments, not opinions, not studies preformed on an Owego Board or with a deck of Taro Cards.

 

[Cindy in PA]

We could solve the GMO debate by labeling all human & animal feed & let the consumer & free market decide. It will never happen because there is too much money behind GMOs.