Selecting Chantecler Roosters for breeding

[Ted Brown]

I have nine Chant males, mix of cockerels and 18-20 months. I will cull a number but open to keeping 3 for use in controlled breeding.

One I was recently given to provide a different gene pool, so will keep.

Of the others I have two that have 2-3" spurs. The rest hatched June 2024 and all are smaller that the older two though vary amongst themselves. The two are both robust and handsome; one has a damaged eye, I assume from fighting. I was on track to keep both until I noticed the damage. Forced to re-think I now realize that I am better to keep the best of the younger crew.

How to decide which to keep?

• I have a copy of the Chant pages from the APA Standards of Perfection but have zero experience using it.
• I know character & personality (c&p) are important IF I KEPT A ROOSTER WITH MY HENS, I DO NOT. [I keep all cockerels & roos in a separate cage, also have a cage I used for controlled breeding.] Does this negate c&p as criteria for selection?
• I am certain that folks on BYC have their own considerations regarding what make a good BREEDING SIRE, I would appreciate anything that anyone cares to contribute.

Thank you.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

It all depends on why you are breeding. Are you looking to increase egg production? Meat production? You state that the personality of the rooster isn't important to you, but some behavior is genetic. I always pick by personality first because I like a peaceful flock with good roosters I can depend on to watch out for my free range flock.

So what are looking to do? Sell birds? Show birds? Keep them all? Picking roosters to keep isn't always easy or obvious when they are younger. I remove the most obnoxious ones first, than give the rest a chance.

 

[Ted Brown]

I keep a flock for the responsibility & routine it demands. I produce eggs to help pay for feed, have 28 hens / pullets. I hatch once per year to replace aging layers.

I had not thought of it but increasing & improving eggs welcomed (ty!).

 

[Mrs. K]

Really, remove anything you don’t like for any reason. Thin the trees so you can see the forest, it works for me to make at least 3 cuts.

So 1st I would cull 4-5 of them, wait two weeks +/-. At this time I would weigh them, look at the SOP’s, again looking for the worst ones. Check carefully for symmetry and good feet with straight toes. Check beaks for alignment. Feel the body under the feathers, read the SOP’s again. Cull two or three.

This would leave you with 2, I am thinking that it will be very obvious who is your top bird.

A very big influence for me is the behavior with the hens, and who the hens like. But in your set up, a non issue. But that is also a reason that you do not to keep 3.

If I read your post right, you are not needing a bird to be a flock master, he does not need to breed all of them.

You would pick maybe 3-4 of your top hens, for the trait you like and the SOP. Put them together and hatch those eggs.

 

[Ted Brown]

@Mrs. K you have well understood.

Excellent advice, I shall follow.

 

[NatJ]

• I know character & personality (c&p) are important IF I KEPT A ROOSTER WITH MY HENS, I DO NOT. [I keep all cockerels & roos in a separate cage, also have a cage I used for controlled breeding.] Does this negate c&p as criteria for selection?

How long do you leave the rooster and hen in the cage for breeding? If they only have a few minutes, his behavior matters a bit. If they stay there for days or weeks, his behavior matters quite a bit more. A rooster can do quite a bit of damage to a hen in that time if he tries.

Also consider how the act as you tend them each day. You probably do not want to be bitten or spurred if you reach into the cage (replacing food/water, changing bedding, taking out the rooster, etc.)

Depending on what size your cages are, you might walk into the space where the rooster lives. You probably don't want him to attack you when you do this.

• I am certain that folks on BYC have their own considerations regarding what make a good BREEDING SIRE, I would appreciate anything that anyone cares to contribute.

I have noticed, when I pick up a chicken to look at it, some struggle wildly and some settle down quickly. I prefer the calmer ones. This seems to be at least partly a breed trait, but there may be differences in individuals within the breed too. I would consider many other traits to be more important, but if it comes down to two birds that are otherwise equal, I would keep the one that is easier to handle.

I agree with the advice from Mrs. K to remove any bird that has something you dislike (that could include temperament, size, color, physical deformities, etc), and then think about the rest of them.

If you can't think of any reason to cull any of them, check them all for crossbeak and crooked toes. Cull any that have those problems. Feel their breasts, and if you find one with an extra-sharp keep, cull him (because you want good meaty breast.) Maybe weigh them and cull the smallest two of the young ones and the smaller of the older birds (since you probably want large meaty birds). If you have several of the same age but one is clearly taking longer to mature, maybe cull him too, because fast maturity is usually a good thing. If one has an extra-large comb that interferese with vision or mobility, cull that one.

You don't have to use exactly those criteria, but they are an idea of the kinds of things you might look for in any dual-purpose production breed.

In future, if you notice some hens laying when most of the others are taking time off, mark those hens as potential breeding stock, and give their sons extra consideration to become breeders in future. That can help select for hens that lay during more of the year.

 

[Mrs. K]

When you have all the same breed, same egg it will be difficult to tell who is laying and who’s is sand bagging. What I would suggest is do a reverse of roosters. Pick 3-4. Pick three different days a month for each of three of what you think is your best hens. Pull off the roost at night, put in a cage wait and see if she lays, take notes on size and quality of egg. Next night second bird, third night third bird. You could test these three birds every week or every month. But then you have data specific to each bird. Then again, only hatch the top 2 birds eggs.

Now do know, that while I have thought about this, I tend to only work on my rooster side of the equation. I try to hatch the same color of eggs each year, with the theory that I will recognize when an age group is beginning to lag. Last year I hatched green eggs, and those pullets are laying green eggs, this year brown eggs.

Mrs K

 

[NatJ]

When you have all the same breed, same egg it will be difficult to tell who is laying and who’s is sand bagging.

For a time of year when hens some are laying and some are not, you can go through and check their butts:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/who-is-laying-and-who-is-not-butt-check.73309/

For hens with yellow skin, you can also tell something about how much they have laid by looking at how yellow the skin is at the vent, beak, and legs. I first learned that from a book published in 1925, but there's at least one webpage with the same information:
https://csuhort.blogspot.com/2016/04/determining-your-hens-productivity.html

Or if you are willing to raise chicks in bad weather, you can just hatch your chicks at the time of year when the fewest hens are laying. Any hen that is not laying will not contribute eggs. If whole-flock egg production were the main consideration, you could hatch every egg that gets laid during a given week. That gives you more chicks from the hens laying the most eggs, fewer chicks from the hens laying fewer eggs, and no chicks from the hens that are not laying then. Again, this is best done when the poorest hens are not laying (in the fall when some have already stopped to molt, or in the middle of winter, or when they first start laying in the spring if you want the ones that start earliest, or if you are trying to breed out broodiness you could wait for a bunch of hens to go broody and then hatch eggs from the ones that aren't broody.)

What I would suggest is do a reverse of roosters. Pick 3-4. Pick three different days a month for each of three of what you think is your best hens. Pull off the roost at night, put in a cage wait and see if she lays, take notes on size and quality of egg. Next night second bird, third night third bird. You could test these three birds every week or every month. But then you have data specific to each bird. Then again, only hatch the top 2 birds eggs.

Yes, that is definitely another way to do it. And unlike the other methods I mentioned, it lets you check the details of the egg she lays (although you would see those anyway if you were separating her to collect her eggs for hatching, this would let you see her egg while you are still deciding which hen to use for breeding.)

 

[Ted Brown]

@Mrs. K @NatJ I very much appreciate your thoughts & guidance.

Mrs.K

• I will follow your 3 (multiple) step cull process; i was procrastinating, already know more than one I do not want; also easier, as you say, to compare with fewer.
• Will also follow your "rotation" selection approach for eggs; had wondered about how to track hen to egg.

NatJ

• My thought had been one Roo with 4-5 hens together for a month; thoughtless beyond that and arising from lack of knowledge& experience
• If minutes is sufficient to fertilize so much the better!!

[There is so much packed into the multiple of both your posts above I will need to re-read. Expect that I will have questions as I process your wisdom.]

 

[NatJ]

• My thought had been one Roo with 4-5 hens together for a month; thoughtless beyond that and arising from lack of knowledge& experience

That would probably work. But during that month, the rooster's behavior does matter some, so that's a thing to maybe consider when picking your breeding males.

• If minutes is sufficient to fertilize so much the better!!

Each hen should only need mating once or twice a week in order to lay fertile eggs all the time. But putting a hen with a rooster for a few minutes does not seem to always result in mating. (It does with rabbits, so at one point I thought I would try it with chickens.)

You could certainly try it and see. And it might work better if the hens live in a pen adjacent to the rooster so they "know" each other, rather than being put in as strangers. It might also depend on the individual rooster and hen.

Some roosters seem more inclined to force a mating whether the hen wants it or not, while others seem to care more about her consent. If you put a hen with a rooster for just a few minutes, watch for a mating, and then remove her, you might be selecting for roosters that don't care what the hen thinks. This would not be a problem if you continue to raise them that way, but it would potentially be a problem if someone buys stock from you and then tries to have a rooster live with a flock of hens full time.