Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Perris]

Idris is not well. Ascites I think. I've never had to deal with this before. It's clear she is not enjoying life right now: been 3 days isolating herself, hunched up, black-tipped comb, no appetite, lethargy, bulging soft belly.

Anyone got experience and advice on how to proceed that doesn't involve vets or DIY surgery on her? I'm looking for tips on managing the situation I suppose, especially, (1) bring her in to warmth and freedom from molestation, or leave her with her family and friends?, and (2) is there a right time to euthanize, in a case like this? or is the lack of appetite nature's way of bringing the issue to its inevitable conclusion?

 

[BDutch]

This is bad news Perris, if it truly is ascites. I had a first and last experience with it about 3 years ago and I didn’t want to go to vet either. When I discovered it was probably too late anyway. She died approx 2 days after discovery.

The first day she walked around like a duck. Probably with pain even if she didn’t complain. The second day she didn’t want to move anymore. I just put her carefully in a open cardboard box in the covered run with food and water. The other hens didn’t annoy her, but checked on her now and then. It was summer and there was no need to take her inside.

I know now a puncture can give relief. And giving a small dose of ibuprofen in water (the soluble) can help against the pain. I did buy/made that but she didn’t want to drink anymore.

She didn’t die alone because one of my Dutch decided to give her company. She sat in front of the box at the end.

 

[RoyalChick]

Idris is not well. Ascites I think. I've never had to deal with this before. It's clear she is not enjoying life right now: been 3 days isolating herself, hunched up, black-tipped comb, no appetite, lethargy, bulging soft belly.

Anyone got experience and advice on how to proceed that doesn't involve vets or DIY surgery on her? I'm looking for tips on managing the situation I suppose, especially, (1) bring her in to warmth and freedom from molestation, or leave her with her family and friends?, and (2) is there a right time to euthanize, in a case like this? or is the lack of appetite nature's way of bringing the issue to its inevitable conclusion?

So sorry Perris. There aren’t many right answers, and we all individually have views on wrong answers.
My personal view which many will disagree with:
- Leave her with her flock or a subset of her flock unless they are bullying her. I have never experienced a flock bullying a sick chicken, rather the opposite, but I hear it happens. I believe in leaving them with the flock even if it is in a hospital cage in with the others because they are flock animals and being alone must be very frightening for them.
- Watch her carefully so you can tell if there is any pleasure in life. Interest in sounds, inspection of treats even if not actually eating them. If, after three days (arbitrary time frame to ensure it isn’t just a passing thing), the bad moments vastly outnumber the good then it is a sign that it is the end.
- My threshold for euthanasia is quite high. Death is a natural process and most of my chickens who have died have done so rather peacefully at a time and place of their choosing. So watching for signs of pain and distress rather than merely illness is what would trigger me to euthanize.

I have found that with the above, just as I have got clear that they have few good moments, they then die on their own. I have often sat with them during this process as have occasionally the odd flock-mate.
Bernie who died earlier this week is my first experience of a chicken just dropping dead. She had signs she was seriously ill but never lost appetite and was only lethargic for very short spells during the day.

It is never easy.

 

[ManueB]

Idris is not well. Ascites I think. I've never had to deal with this before. It's clear she is not enjoying life right now: been 3 days isolating herself, hunched up, black-tipped comb, no appetite, lethargy, bulging soft belly.

Anyone got experience and advice on how to proceed that doesn't involve vets or DIY surgery on her? I'm looking for tips on managing the situation I suppose, especially, (1) bring her in to warmth and freedom from molestation, or leave her with her family and friends?, and (2) is there a right time to euthanize, in a case like this? or is the lack of appetite nature's way of bringing the issue to its inevitable conclusion?

I also prefer leaving chickens in the flock, whenever possible. Do the roosters bother her ? How cold, damp, windy is it ?

No, I don't think lack of appetite always means the system shutting down towards the end. I've experienced a few times hens completely stopping to eat for as long as a week and then temporarily getting better, eating again and putting weight back on. This has led me to think that in some cases, fasting could be part of dealing with disease.

I suppose you already tried feeding her separately, and offering different types of food.

Kara has ascites and it's been a year since we first noticed. Her quality of life is good, except she is more tired, less mobile and often resting, like she was a senior chicken when she is only two. Ascites is a symptom ; the cause often means short term death, but not always.

 

[Perris]

The other hens didn’t annoy her

unless they are bullying her

not really

Do the roosters bother her ?

that is the problem; she was standing in the doorway of a coop when I opened up this morning and I lifted her out to stop her getting bowled over by the rest exiting it, and Killay mated her straight away (so much the idea that roos are only interested in hens in condition to reproduce, or maybe K's just stupid). I think she can really do without that right now.

How cold, damp, windy is it ?

very variable temps, swinging around from about 2 to about 15 C. Mostly grey and damp. Hardly a breath of wind since the storm blew through.

I suppose you already tried feeding her separately, and offering different types of food.

indeed. She ate mealworms the last 2 days, but she's not interested this morning.

This has led me to think that in some cases, fasting could be part of dealing with disease.

I'm sure you're right.

watching for signs of pain and distress rather than merely illness is what would trigger me to euthanize

That is an excellent piece of advice; thank you.

 

[Ladies-Eight]

Ex Batts good morning one and all!

Tea is ready.

Temperature is in 60s partly cloudy.

Have a great day!

 

[HiEverybirdy]

@Perris - Our Easter Eggers have been susceptible to ascites, so I'll share thoughts...

Miss Ashley had a long illness that culminated in severe ascites. The last week, she was wobbly and didn't want to get on the roost, so I brought her in overnight and would slip her into the yard in the mornings. That's something you could do for Idris to avoid rooster drama first thing in the day?

Ashley was intermittently ill for 16 months, so I took ascites as a sign the illness was finally taking over and didn't drain. There are too many online horror stories about pain/stress/risk of infection.

She was eating favorite snacks until the end and passed away before I felt she was having enough difficulty to euthanize, but it was horrible sitting by and doing nothing about the ascites. Had I any faith in the veterinary resources around here, I would've had her at the vet for treatment. She is missed, tons. A photo from her youth:

However, 3 months later, when otherwise healthy Easter Egger Miss Raisin stopped laying and suddenly developed a bubble butt, I cracked. I couldn't sit by and let ascites take over again. Particularly because Raisin didn't have a history of illness.

I can't remember if it took 2 weeks or more for the ascites to reach the point where Raisin began to walk slowly and look miserable, but that's the day I watched YouTube videos about draining chicken ascites, gathered supplies, gently burrito-wrapped Raisin in a towel, sterilized the correct spot on her bum, and drained 1/4 cup of straw-colored liquid (could've drained more but didn't want to shock her).

I'm so squeamish that I'm unsure how or why I tried it. Besides having to stick her 3 times because I worried I was in the wrong spot, it went smoothly. Raisin not only seemed completely unbothered by the procedure; as soon as it was done, she hopped off my lap and ran to join the others, totally back to normal.

She was low the next morning, with extremely watery poop. I thought I'd really screwed up. But by evening, she was back to normal and has been healthy ever since, to my utter surprise.

I share this because, while Idris probably likes being held even less than Raisin, who is a bird you can't touch, if the onset of the ascites is acute and you want to ease Idris' suffering, it may be worth a try.

Other things we've done for Raisin:

- Milk thistle: For 4 months after the ascites, Raisin had about 0.3 ml of milk thistle extract on 1 tsp of rolled oats each morning. She knew to meet me in a secret spot for her oats. We went through a few bottles of this one before I stopped giving it to her, for now.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CGBV5BYP/

- Temperature control: Extreme cold or heat makes the heart work harder and can cause more fluid build-up, so during the summer, I ran a rechargeable fan in a place Raisin liked. She'd stand in front of it to stay cool (and make me feel like the world's smartest chicken parent).

Her fan in the background:

She also roosts by a radiant heater in the winter, though I'm guessing her issue won't really flare again until spring, if her system decides to try laying again.

 

[Perris]

Thanks for sharing your experiences and advice @HiEverybirdy; I'm delighted to read that Raisin benefited from draining and continues to do so well - she is a very lucky hen to have you looking after her

to avoid rooster drama first thing in the day?

for the last few days she stayed in the coop when the rest piled out, it's just this morning where she was standing was blocking the pop door and after Erddig pushed past I thought it best to lift her out, so her suffering Killay's attention was my fault and unusual. This evening, when I went to close up, I found her standing on the lawn in the drizzle, not even close to the coops, or indeed to anywhere they normally hang out; I took her and put her in one of the nest boxes. I expect she will be safe from the boys' attentions there, if she makes it through the night.

There are too many online horror stories about pain/stress/risk of infection

That's my impression too. I do not want to make things worse for her.

it was horrible sitting by and doing nothing

It is. But sometimes intervening makes things worse, especially if we don't really know what we are doing, and/or know but are inexperienced. I don't want to learn by trial-and-error on Idris.

I understand that lots of things can cause ascites, that it's a symptom, and can continue a long time, but I think whatever Idris' problem is (I suspect heart failure, purply-black comb) it's advancing quickly. In early November she looked great, she quit brooding and resumed laying, and laid 4 eggs by mid November; then stopped. I thought it was the sudden cold snap that stopped her (and all but 1 of the others who were laying at the time). But she looks dreadful today. I take comfort in the fact that I let her brood despite her youth, and that actually she has more offspring from the 2024 clutches than anyone else: three daughters, two that she co-brooded with Rhondda, and another that Fez raised in June.

This was her exiting broodiness, 11 Nov

 

[HiEverybirdy]

It is. But sometimes intervening makes things worse, especially if we don't really know what we are doing, and/or know but are inexperienced. I don't want to learn by trial-and-error on Idris.

Very much agreed. I chose to do such an uncharacteristically risky thing based on Raisin's robustness and a sense that ascites were not only a symptom but about to be a root cause of a cascade of additional problems. Her comb coloring was never too bad, and her illness was progressing more slowly than what you describe with Idris.

Idris certainly had a halcyon youth. Will be thinking good thoughts for the lovely, poofy-headed lady.

 

[Shadrach]

are you ever going to move the coop to fresh ground, or have you decided to treat it as a fixed one and leave it where it is?

Move to fresh ground is stretching it a bit given the coop has to stay in the run. Yes, I still intend to move the coop further into the run but when exactly is another matter.