Suspected Internal Laying: Worth Antibiotics?

[buffy-the-eggpile-layer]

My 4 y/o GLW started exhibiting signs of internal laying--namely going to her nesting box, acting like she's laying, yet with no egg produced. She's done this two days in a row (and previously had been laying regularly). In my experience, this is a red flag/telltale sign of internal laying, which was behind my other two losses a year earlier (3 y/o ISA and BR).

However, in this case, my GLW is not showing other signs of illness, whereas the others rapidly developed EYP. Her poop is normal, crop is emptying, and she's eating and drinking plenty. She's also active and vocal. Comb is vibrant red. Her belly is *maybe* a little swollen/firm, but she's always been a chunk and felt on the fuller side in that area. It's not to the degree that I'm certain it's abnormal (like it was with the others). She still has a normal shape to that area.

Based on the above, would you pre-emptively treat with abx in case an infection is causing laying issues? Or wait for additional signs?

 

[Farmgirl283420]

Hi I know nothing about this but could you tell me about it I would like to learn it case it happens to one of my girls sorry for your loss

Thank you!

 

[buffy-the-eggpile-layer]

Hi I know nothing about this but could you tell me about it I would like to learn it case it happens to one of my girls sorry for your loss

Thank you!

Internal laying is when the egg is layed internally and deposited in the abdomen instead of externally. This typically occurs due to trauma to the oviduct, an infection, or a defective shell gland. Signs include the chicken acting like they're laying eggs according to their normal routine, without actually producing the egg (this is often the first sign in my experience). Meanwhile you'll notice increased swelling/firmness of the abdomen, which is indicative of an accumulation of internal egg masses/fluid. You might also notice that the crop no longer empties fully, and often it takes on a doughy quality. Poops become sickly--strained and/or tinged the color of yolk. At this point, the hen very likely becomes visibly ill or lethargic.

I think sometimes infections like EYP or salpingitis lead to internal laying; other times the internal laying causes infections like EYP (it's a real chicken or the egg type riddle!). Sadly, while antibiotics might treat the infection making the hen ill, internal laying is a chronic issue and will typically return. I'm always willing to try my best, in any case, as there are rare instances where hens can make full recoveries and resume laying in the future. Otherwise, the only cures are surgery and/or a hormonal implant, which are extremely costly.

Internal laying is most common in production breeds like ISA Browns or sex links. They're bred to lay like crazy and tend to burn out due to reproductive issues around 2-3 y/o (though some go on to live longer). I've also found it to be common in hatchery stock chickens across the board (versus breeder quality). So far, all of my losses have been due to internal laying/EYP, excepting a rooster who had a heart defect. I think it is way more common that it's made out to be--and often the cause of sudden/mysterious deaths of laying hens.

 

[Farmgirl283420]

Thank you good thing I don't have those breeds!!

 

[ChickNanny13]

Due to her age, I'm thinking she's taking a break. Since she's eating/drinking/pooping and normal activity, I wouldn't worry much although best to monitor her.

 

[buffy-the-eggpile-layer]

Due to her age, I'm thinking she's taking a break. Since she's eating/drinking/pooping and normal activity, I wouldn't worry much although best to monitor her.

Thanks for your reply! Have you noticed that older hens taking breaks still "pretend" to lay but don't? That's the part that concerns me. Bright red comb and acting like she's laying according to her normal schedule.

I have a 4 y/o RIR who is taking a break, but she stopped going to the box and her comb is shrunken and less vibrant. Fingers crossed my GLW will follow suit!

 

[ChickNanny13]

I never had hens that "age" In the past I've always taken GrandMa trips in the summer, so to lessen the load on Hubby, I'd rehome and restart when I returned. Haven't taken trips for several years now but gave up chickens when Hubby passed. Recently started up again. My girls making a year old this year.

Being that your GLW has a red comb and going to the nest box, acting normal, you may want to try giving her a Epson Salt soak (egg bound) although she's not showing any symptoms of it. IF egg bound they can't poop ... Does she free range? Maybe another nest somewhere, going broody?

 

[buffy-the-eggpile-layer]

I never had hens that "age" In the past I've always taken GrandMa trips in the summer, so to lessen the load on Hubby, I'd rehome and restart when I returned. Haven't taken trips for several years now but gave up chickens when Hubby passed. Recently started up again. My girls making a year old this year.

Being that your GLW has a red comb and going to the nest box, acting normal, you may want to try giving her a Epson Salt soak (egg bound) although she's not showing any symptoms of it. IF egg bound they can't poop ... Does she free range? Maybe another nest somewhere, going broody?

I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope things are going well in your new flock--sounds like you had a good system.

They only free range supervised, o no hidden nests. She poops normally still and is able to fully empty her crop. She's not acting broody. The nest sitting lasts for the normal amount of time she usually lays--and during the normal times she lays (I have only 5 hens now, all 4 y/o, and spend much time with them--so I have their habits on lockdown lol).

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experiences--and I'm hopeful she may just be transitioning to a break. Her last egg before this (3 days ago) was normal, but covered in a but of chalky substance that seemed like excess calcium. I forgot that detail! Normal shape/size and a nice hard shell though.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

not showing other signs of illness

Her poop is normal, crop is emptying, and she's eating and drinking plenty. She's also active and vocal. Comb is vibrant red.

Based on the above, would you pre-emptively treat with abx in case an infection is causing laying issues? Or wait for additional signs?

No, I would not pre-emptively treat with abx.

She's eating/drinking/active.

 

[Sussex19]

I have had hens (of all ages) go to the nesting box and looking they are laying, but then not.
It only happen occasionally though, but none of those have ever had any problems.
The only hen that I have lost to a reproductive problem did not do it, interestingly enough.