Théo and the chickens des Sauches

[ManueB]

Yesterday I found a 2 and half year old rooster in the dust bath.... dead. Not a mark on him. I thought he was just sunning and bathing until I realized he didn't blink....Usually when they have a heart attack the comb is purple. He was very healthy and I thought he was going to last a long time.
He was mean to a hen that I moved instead of harvesting him. The hen has been harassed by every male and I moved her to the 4th coop. Which currently doesn't have a rooster. I harvested his son instead. I guess I didn't choose the right one.

I'm sorry, it must have been a really unpleasant surprise. Do you still believe it was a heart attack ? Whatever it was, I hope it's not something that could affect some of your other chickens.
Do you deliberately keep a coop with no rooster, or is it just a coincidence?

My chickens are not as happy as in summer. But they thrive on the organic chick feed with layer pellets and oyster shells on the side. For evening treat they have mixed grains and a few mealworms. They do get a little human food ince in while, but not every day.

Maybe quality food made for chickens without much human food is not so bad.

Yes, possibly. I'm still not done with my bag of starter crumble, so I've yet to see how the organic starter will work for them.
I made it sound like they have a whole pizza for breakfast every day, but it's not like that ! They get either eggs, sardines, whole grain rice, or whole grain pasta, in the mash, and never more than 90 g dry, so that's 8 g per chicken. I don't think it would make that much a difference in their nutritional balance.

But thinking about it, and the difference between your chickens and mine, I do find that, at least in my short experience, it's more difficult to manage adequate nutrition for the hens that lay a lot. Apart from Chipie who likely had a deficiency last year because she could not have access to enough food, my smaller chickens, my roosters, and those who lay fewer eggs are less demanding, in the sense that I feel they could do well with many different type of diets. My ex-batts in their first two years, the Leghorns Alba and Nieva, Lilly and Lulu need to get what it takes to make an egg almost every day.

Tomorrow the lady of the hedge chickens comes to pick up my silly rooster.
Soo glad he is going to a good new home
Last week with the storms he often started to crow in the middle of the night.

I'm also really glad you found a home for him. He is very handsome. I know there is no other way in many cases, but I still really don't feel comfortable with killing cockerels when chickens are kept as pets, just because they are male. I understand all the reasons why there's often no better way but it disturbs me all the same.

@Perris hoping that you are not having too much damage, and mostly that you and your chickens are safe !
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Most of the time now Théo is plain awful with me. I don't really mind, I know he thinks I'm the one who keeps him away from Merle by not letting him go in the chicken yard to fight Gaston. This morning for once he was really good with Piou-piou ! She finally decided to lay an egg after a week off. He was very keen to convince her to lay outside and not in the coop, where he can't follow her. He had been touring possible nests with her the last days, and he stayed almost throughout the hour it took to get it done.

Standing guard when she was finally convinced it was the right place. However she had to make the nest all over, she thought he didn't know how to do it right. Reminded me of arguments with my partner about making the bed ...with the difference that in our couple the male is the type A.

Red morning sailor's warning

Molting Annette has started coming out to the garden again since yesterday, guess she feels a bit better.

It's been a year since we first took Kara to the vet because she had laying issues and maybe ascites..she's still there.

 

[RoyalChick]

I'm sorry, it must have been a really unpleasant surprise. Do you still believe it was a heart attack ? Whatever it was, I hope it's not something that could affect some of your other chickens.
Do you deliberately keep a coop with no rooster, or is it just a coincidence?

Yes, possibly. I'm still not done with my bag of starter crumble, so I've yet to see how the organic starter will work for them.
I made it sound like they have a whole pizza for breakfast every day, but it's not like that ! They get either eggs, sardines, whole grain rice, or whole grain pasta, in the mash, and never more than 90 g dry, so that's 8 g per chicken. I don't think it would make that much a difference in their nutritional balance.

But thinking about it, and the difference between your chickens and mine, I do find that, at least in my short experience, it's more difficult to manage adequate nutrition for the hens that lay a lot. Apart from Chipie who likely had a deficiency last year because she could not have access to enough food, my smaller chickens, my roosters, and those who lay fewer eggs are less demanding, in the sense that I feel they could do well with many different type of diets. My ex-batts in their first two years, the Leghorns Alba and Nieva, Lilly and Lulu need to get what it takes to make an egg almost every day.

I'm also really glad you found a home for him. He is very handsome. I know there is no other way in many cases, but I still really don't feel comfortable with killing cockerels when chickens are kept as pets, just because they are male. I understand all the reasons why there's often no better way but it disturbs me all the same.

@Perris hoping that you are not having too much damage, and mostly that you and your chickens are safe !
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Most of the time now Théo is plain awful with me. I don't really mind, I know he thinks I'm the one who keeps him away from Merle by not letting him go in the chicken yard to fight Gaston. This morning for once he was really good with Piou-piou ! She finally decided to lay an egg after a week off. He was very keen to convince her to lay outside and not in the coop, where he can't follow her. He had been touring possible nests with her the last days, and he stayed almost throughout the hour it took to get it done.

View attachment 4002495View attachment 4002496
Standing guard when she was finally convinced it was the right place. However she had to make the nest all over, she thought he didn't know how to do it right. Reminded me of arguments with my partner about making the bed ...with the difference that in our couple the male is the type A.
View attachment 4002494
Red morning sailor's warning
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View attachment 4002497
Molting Annette has started coming out to the garden again since yesterday, guess she feels a bit better.
View attachment 4002506
It's been a year since we first took Kara to the vet because she had laying issues and maybe ascites..she's still there.
View attachment 4002507View attachment 4002508View attachment 4002509

Is that a shed deer antler in front of the nest area? If so, its a big one!

 

[Molpet]

I'm sorry, it must have been a really unpleasant surprise. Do you still believe it was a heart attack ? Whatever it was, I hope it's not something that could affect some of your other chickens.
Do you deliberately keep a coop with no rooster, or is it just a coincidence?

not sure what the cause was. So far no one else has been found dead. .. or acting different, but he was acting fine a few hours earlier.
The roosterless coop is because the 4 year old rooster was lame. I had locked him and the hens in around the beginning of august. He was getting chased by year old spare roosters and getting beat up because he was lame. I also didn't think those hens were laying, they weren't. about the middle of august is when the canine killed 8 chickens in a couple attacks. I knew he would be killed so I left them locked up. But 8 birds in an 8x8 ft coop caused him to get stiffer and he ended up hardly able to stand to eat... so I harvested him. I have meat mutt mix and they tend to have what I think is gout or arthritis. The cartilage in the joints builds up. He was half standard Dark Cornish, I think called Indian Game in Europe.
Since the hens were not laying and didn't have a rooster to keep the cockerels away, I have been leaving them locked up most of the time. There are 2 spare roosters and 4 cockerels hanging around the coop that are just waiting for a chance. The hens are mainly glad to stay in. I have let them out a few times but the males have not been nice... except for a brother to their old rooster who follows me to see if they are getting better food. When they start laying I will see if he wants to take them over, but he has his own coop with 17 hens, 2 spare roosters and a cockerel.

 

[BDutch]

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Most of the time now Théo is plain awful with me. I don't really mind, I know he thinks I'm the one who keeps him away from Merle by not letting him go in the chicken yard to fight Gaston

I wonder how you keep Théo away from the chicken garden. Is he confined to a run?

I do find that, at least in my short experience, it's more difficult to manage adequate nutrition for the hens that lay a lot.

Giving the right food to chickens who are laying that much shouldn’t be very difficult, bc the chickens in factory farming lay much too, and most chicken layer feed is optimised for laying hybrids. You are right though that mine obviously need less protein and calcium because they don’t lay that much.
Quantity is no problem either bc my chickens have several feeding stations available to avoid quarrelling about food . One container with chick feed is filled and accessible 24 hours /day. Oyster shell is available 24/7 too.

 

[ManueB]

Is that a shed deer antler in front of the nest area? If so, its a big one!

A stag? We use to find many before we fenced the place. This one is not so big, the picture is misleading.

I wonder how you keep Théo away from the chicken garden. Is he confined to a run?

It's the other way round. There is a fence around the chicken yard. Théo free ranges outside and he doesn't know anymore how to fly over the fence to get back in.

Giving the right food to chickens who are laying that much shouldn’t be very difficult, bc the chickens in factory farming lay much too, and most chicken layer feed is optimised for laying hybrids.

Chicken layer feed is optimized, at least in my country, for production. All the studies I found evaluate the composition of layer feed by checking how many eggs are laid, their conformity to commercial standards, in regard to cost. None look at the chicken's health, which I think means that's not what layer feed is made for.

Also, here layer feed for backyard chickens is not sold as a complete food. It's meant to be completed with grains and kitchen scrap. I think it's quality is not very good. There is now a different type of fancy food sold as a complete meal, but it comes in very small quantities.

But that's not my main issue. I do give my chickens free access to organic layer feed, but they don't eat it ! They probably would if they only had that available. But I have more chickens that don't need it because they are males or don't lay, than chickens who do, so it wouldn't make sense.

I can attest it's not because they don't like soy. I've began cooking whole soy beans for them and they love them ! Because I have cooked soy on hand, I've also started again making soy milk for me ; so I give the chickens the okara and they also love it, even though it's consistence is a milled stuff almost as fine as what's in the layer feed. Go figure !
I must say as a human, home made soy milk does taste better than store bought one.

It was cold today, more than it has been this year, -5 early morning and still barely 0 at noon. In the afternoon the sun came out and it was much better. The chickens spent almost all afternoon outside and from their attitude I can see that they are not only moulting but stressed by raptors - they are constantly looking up and running to hide when they hear the jays.
Lilly laid a soft egg this morning! It's the second in a week, and last time it happened was in January last year .

 

[MaryJanet]

I see someone back there in the nest in picture 7, who is that hiding away?

 

[Molpet]

I'm sorry, it must have been a really unpleasant surprise. Do you still believe it was a heart attack ? Whatever it was, I hope it's not something that could affect some of your other chickens.

I got thinking about it and I have had birds fall over dead before... it's spring and fall when the temperature is bouncing up and down. Which it has been doing.
Temperature in f

ETA those birds were closer to the CX pullet offspring from 2016. I started adding different genetics because they were dieing at 18 months up to 3 years. Since I added a lavender old English orphington rooster and a standard dark Cornish they have been living longer.
This rooster looked like my first crosses

 

[BDutch]

Lilly laid a soft egg this morning! It's the second in a week, and last time it happened was in January last year .

This is not good news.
Hopefully it’s the eggs get better very soon. I wonder if the cold has any influence.

One of my pullets has laid a nice brown first egg. Very sure bc no other chicken I have lays brown eggs. This is the first brown egg I ever had from my own chickens. And to my surprise its even a bit darker than the Amrock hatching eggs I had.

 

[Perris]

But thinking about it, and the difference between your chickens and mine, I do find that, at least in my short experience, it's more difficult to manage adequate nutrition for the hens that lay a lot.

one of the general findings in nutritional geometry is that in many species there is a trade-off between eating for longevity and eating for reproduction; those that eat relatively high carb low protein diets live longer, while those that eat relatively high protein low carb diets have more offspring. Most individuals seem to aim to compromise and choose foods that achieve that. That work suggests that heavy laying hens need more protein than their less productive sisters.

hoping that you are not having too much damage

thanks; it could have been a lot worse. But 3 days with no power in December, with short days and cold temperatures, has been a pita. Very glad we live in a house with a fireplace, so could at least get one room warm, and had a camping gaz, so could heat stuff to eat and drink, albeit one little pan at a time. But there's a lot of clearing up to do outside.

they don't eat it ! They probably would if they only had that available

The more I have read on nutritional geometry, the more convinced I am that a chicken's instincts are the best guide to what it needs to eat at that time, and also what it needs to not eat. Apparently in some no-choice experiments, some will actually die of starvation in preference to suffering the ill effects of a given foodstuff; it makes them feel so bad that they would rather die than eat it, then. But individuals and their digestive systems are dynamic systems, so at another time, they might eat that same food that they wouldn't touch before, especially if it constitutes only a part, and not the totality of the diet, so that they have a change to compensate for the aversive substance(s) within the food that was putting them off before.

 

[ManueB]

I see someone back there in the nest in picture 7, who is that hiding away?

Good catch ! The picture is so dark she's hard to see.. that's Annette and I really wish she wouldn't roost there because the nest is hard to access to clean.

On the picture both sisters Annette and Mélisse are moulting, and finding a place to roost without getting chased is hard for them. I'm grateful they haven't lost any of their balance as was the case for some of my moulting hens, and can easily jump up and down the roosts.

ETA those birds were closer to the CX pullet offspring from 2016. I started adding different genetics because they were dieing at 18 months up to 3 years. Since I added a lavender old English orphington rooster and a standard dark Cornish they have been living longer.
This rooster looked like my first crosses

So maybe it's a genetic issue ?

I know very little about meat birds. I've started following rescues on social media who take in broilers and I was surprised that in several cases, some of those fast growing industrial meat chickens outlive their expected lifespan for quite long. I suppose they are exceptions, but some get to live five years and more.
I suppose having the fastest growth isn't really what you're looking for !

thanks; it could have been a lot worse. But 3 days with no power in December, with short days and cold temperatures, has been a pita. Very glad we live in a house with a fireplace, so could at least get one room warm, and had a camping gaz, so could heat stuff to eat and drink, albeit one little pan at a time. But there's a lot of clearing up to do outside.

Glad that you only had outdoor damage, could get some warmth, and that all of you including the chickens are fine ! The first winter we spent here, we had a snow storm and three days without power. We only use the stove for heat and to cook, so that made no difference, but by the third day we caved in ...and went to take a hot shower at my partner 's mother ! Warmth, warm water, light... It does make you think about how unfit we have become to live without energy. Take away electricity and oil, and we would be in trouble. People lived without them for many centuries I know, but however much I enjoy simple living I also realise I need confort.

The more I have read on nutritional geometry, the more convinced I am that a chicken's instincts are the best guide to what it needs to eat at that time, and also what it needs to not eat. Apparently in some no-choice experiments, some will actually die of starvation in preference to suffering the ill effects of a given foodstuff; it makes them feel so bad that they would rather die than eat it, then. But individuals and their digestive systems are dynamic systems, so at another time, they might eat that same food that they wouldn't touch before, especially if it constitutes only a part, and not the totality of the diet, so that they have a change to compensate for the aversive substance(s) within the food that was putting them off before.

Well, that sounds like it would support what I tried to do with feeding the chickens, without knowing about nutritional geometry. But I can't say whether it's working well, or not. The ex-batt's had reproductive issues when they ate only layer feed, and I still see reproductive issues in the hens more than should be the case now I've changed the way of feeding. On the other hand, they seem to deal rather well with the worm load from the environment.
And I also find there is so much evolution in nutritional recommendations, it's a fast moving science, and it's not always easy to know even with scientific studies if the findings are hard facts, or will be subject to new interpretations.

Yesterday it was warmer (above freezing in the morning) but grey all day, and not very pleasant, and today down to -5 again but with more sun. Some of the chickens seem to spend a bit more time outside. They still seem to prefer staying in the coop as long as it's below freezing outside.

Lilly laid another soft shell egg this morning and I'm not certain all of it came out. There's likely something not good going on. She was quite active and normal during the day, but I'm still worried. I gave her a calcium pill ; she refused half of it, even hidden in her absolute favourite food, banana. So I guess she thinks it's not a calcium issue. Piou-piou also gave me a bit of a scare a while ago and she seems to be laying fine now, so I hope it will be the same for Lilly.

It bugs me that they are molting so late ! It would have been so much better if they had all done like Chipie, who did most of the job in September. I wonder what causes the difference in timing between the chickens.

Tiny but angry!

Mélisse and her one feather tail.

Piou-pioi has a wry tail ! I realised yesterday it's gone quite crooked to the left. Don't know what's going on but she doesn't seem to notice..and she's all lopsided anyway!

Dead golden rods work as a nice camouflage.

Laure is definitely getting fat bigger! Such a strange endearing hen she is.