The genetics of buff coloring (specifically silkies)

[CityGirlintheCountry]

So I know that we are all trying to get a dark, clear buff color in our buff silkies. I am a little confused as to some of the ways people are getting there.

- I have heard of people using partridge in their program. Why? Wouldn't this just add black into the mix, as well as patterning?

- I have heard of a number of people that cross back to blue to deepen the buff. Why? Wouldn't this just add blue leakage into the mix? How does this get a darker buff?

- Using red will also add the threat of black, but wouldn't it be a better choice to use to darken the buff? What other problems would arise from this cross?

Thanks for the help!

 

[briarpatchfarms]

Quote:
When you cross a buff to a black you get 100% Partridge...I think is how it goes, I dont fool with Partridge! So when using a partridge generally a dark partridge to darken the buff all that you are doing is covering the partridge pattern or deluting it!

The reason for darkening the buff!!!

Buff Silkies in the past few year have become to light, they have a tendency of throwing white down which is a major defect and so breeders are trying to prevent that.

Hope that this is right but it could be wrong Im kindof looking into it myself

 

[swheat]

I have heard of some crossing buff to blue in order to dilute the dark feathers in buff.

 

[Henk69]

buff to black is not partridge.

The problem with red is that you would get: red...

 

[CityGirlintheCountry]

Yay! Henk the genetics guru came to play!!

Okay, Henk, so breeding red into the line won't beef up the buff, but will rather just make something in a light red? How do you darken buff feathers? Logically you would breed your darkest buffs together, but my darkest buffs all have black in their tips. I'm told that is bad and that you should breed that out. How do I darken the line and why am I hearing of people adding in blue?

 

[abooth]

on hinkjc's website there is some good info about breeding buff birds.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
When you cross a buff to a black you get 100% Partridge...I think is how it goes, I dont fool with Partridge! So when using a partridge generally a dark partridge to darken the buff all that you are doing is covering the partridge pattern or deluting it!

The reason for darkening the buff!!!

Buff Silkies in the past few year have become to light, they have a tendency of throwing white down which is a major defect and so breeders are trying to prevent that.

Hope that this is right but it could be wrong Im kindof looking into it myself

No; black to buff will not give partridge. A black silkie is almost certainly e^b/e^b plus melanizers. e^b plus Pg giives partridge, melanizers or not.

I have not seen a problem in too light buffs, but perhaps that is occurring in other parts of hte country.

Buff can be based upon e^b or E^Wh. The clearest buffs are wheaten based. Silkies, however are almost always brown based. You can tell the difference by looking at the undercolour. Buff is diluted red. Blue dilutes black pigment, but has little effect on red pigment. What blue does to a buff is dilute the black feathers so that they are less noticeable; it does little or nothing to the buff colouring, and knowledgeable breeders would not expect it to. If you want to dilute buff, you need lavender, inhibitor of gold or champaign blonde as well as dilute. Theoretically any of these dilution genes would change a red to buff. Add a second diluter and you further dilute the colour. Tim may be able to tell us how this works; I've never heard the cellular level of how dilution actually works--my usual analogy is that the pigment spigots are turned towards, but not completely, off.

 

[Henk69]

Darkness of gold improves when you get your columbian factor purebred.
My e^b based vorwerks do have a good dark buff color.

Crossing to reds could help getting rid of gold diluters, if they are in your light buffs.
So let me take that earlier comment back...

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

So Co/co+ is a lighter buff than Co/Co? (all other genes being equal)

Also, Henk, can you look through my post and correct any mistakes--I think I got it all correct, but...

 

[SundownWaterfowl]

I personally would just try different combinations of your hens and roosters. You said in another post your darkest buff has black starting to come in on his tail, I would try him with your clearest hen and see what you get. Who knows, you may get something great from him, or not. The rooster from my other post, his mother wasnt the best, and I actually was thinking of giving her away, but thought I would try to see what I got, and was pleasantly suprised. You could also have 2 amazing birds that just produce cruddy offspring.

I personally wouldnt go ahead and start mixing colors, like buff with splash, lav, or blue, to try and lighten the off colors.

How are your babies growing out? Any recent pictures?