URGENT Hatching help please - what happened?

[MyNYfarm]

23 days ago I began incubating a batch of 36 eggs. Mix of common breeds.
Through candeling I identified 4 that were bad, 32 were developed and healthy looking.
On day 19, 6 chicks piped and hatched within a few hours. Several more eggs were moving and there was chirping from within.
At the advice of my mentor, I waited until the first 6 to be fully dry and pulled them out and put them in the brooder. They are doing great!

Today is day 23..... 2 other eggs piped on day 19 (along with the 6 that hatched) but never progressed. After 2 days with no progress at all, today I peeled a bit of shell and membrane away, just enough to give them a chance. Both eventually hatched, but sadly are/were deformed. Feet curled in, knees outrageously large, wings undersized and unable to hold up there heads. 1 of the 2 was born with the sack (yolk?) outside, hanging. I left those 2 in the incubator for an extra long time and sadly, 1 passed. The other is still alive. It's feet and knees are not as severe, but it can't lift its head up at all nor can it walk. Won't open it's eyes. I've used a dropper to give it some of the vitamin and electrolyte water the chicks have, but it didn't help.

The other 24 eggs seem lifeless. Those that were moving and chirping on day 19/20 have stopped moving and have gone silent.
No signs at all of life.

What happened?
What can I do?

Humidity is still at 70% (increased on day 18) and the incubator temp is 100.5.

I did open it (during lockdown) to remove the 6 chicks that hatched on day 19, and again to remove the 2 sickly/deformed chicks.

Can I do anything to get the remaining eggs to start them progressing again? They were moving and chirping on day 19 and now, day 23, they are lifeless.

Should I help and if so how?

W the at can I do for the chick that can't hold his head up?

What might have caused healthy and moving eggs to suddenly go idle and not progress in the past 4 days?

I am clueless and feel helpless

 

[nuthatched]

Where did you get the eggs?

 

[Mill Chick]

I think the temperature is a bit high but other than that I don’t see what the problem could be unless they are genetically bad?

 

[Chicken_Obsesser]

@Eggcessive @azygous @Wyorp Rock

 

[NatJ]

Can I do anything to get the remaining eggs to start them progressing again? They were moving and chirping on day 19 and now, day 23, they are lifeless.

They may be dead. If they are dead, there is nothing you can do to help.

Should I help and if so how?

You could look for ideas in this article:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/guide-to-assisted-hatching-for-all-poultry.72886/
It has a lot of information about assisting chicks to help, including both when to help and how to help.

Given how many days have passed, I think it might be reasonable to carefully open one egg from the big (aircell) end. If the chick dead, open another egg. Continue until you have checked them all. If you find a live chick, put the egg back in the incubator and do more research on what to do next.

I would expect to find them all dead in this case, but the way to be sure is to actually check. If they are dead, you will not do any harm by opening the eggs. If they are alive, but they are already this many days overdue, it may be time to assist them anyway.

What might have caused healthy and moving eggs to suddenly go idle and not progress in the past 4 days?

If the chicks are alive, there are quite a few possibilities.
If the chicks are dead, there are even more possibilities but they are different ones.

Any time you incubate eggs, if some chicks fail to hatch, you may want to consider opening the unhatched eggs and see what you can learn from them. For example, if the chicks are deformed, that might point to one set of explanations. If the chicks appear completely normal, things like whether they absorbed the yolk or not can also point to some explanations or others.

Hatching is a difficult time for chicks, and having some fail to hatch is moderately common, but you do seem to have a really high rate of ones that developed but then did not hatch.

Possible causes of the problem would include genetic issues, dietary deficiencies (the parent birds that produced the eggs), how the eggs were stored and handled before incubation, temperature or humidity issues during incubation.

Unfortunately I don't know any of the actual details just a basic idea of where to start looking.

 

[MyNYfarm]

Where did you get the eggs?

From a local farm very near me with a great reputation and very good hatch rate.
I candled the eggs and they looked amazing.
When the initial 6 hatched, dried and became active, they were running through the incubator banding into other eggs and even flipped some 180 degrees. I think that caused the unhatched chicks to have their heads moved out of the air pocket.
Since posting, I did some research. I floated them all to find the air pocket and used a tiny drill to make an air hole. I'm afraid I was too late, those moving and chirping 4vdays ago are lifeless. I believe the deformed ones that last hatched had brain damage from lack of oxygen.

 

[MyNYfarm]

Thank you. S

They may be dead. If they are dead, there is nothing you can do to help.


You could look for ideas in this article:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/guide-to-assisted-hatching-for-all-poultry.72886/
It has a lot of information about assisting chicks to help, including both when to help and how to help.

Given how many days have passed, I think it might be reasonable to carefully open one egg from the big (aircell) end. If the chick dead, open another egg. Continue until you have checked them all. If you find a live chick, put the egg back in the incubator and do more research on what to do next.

I would expect to find them all dead in this case, but the way to be sure is to actually check. If they are dead, you will not do any harm by opening the eggs. If they are alive, but they are already this many days overdue, it may be time to assist them anyway.


If the chicks are alive, there are quite a few possibilities.
If the chicks are dead, there are even more possibilities but they are different ones.

Any time you incubate eggs, if some chicks fail to hatch, you may want to consider opening the unhatched eggs and see what you can learn from them. For example, if the chicks are deformed, that might point to one set of explanations. If the chicks appear completely normal, things like whether they absorbed the yolk or not can also point to some explanations or others.

Hatching is a difficult time for chicks, and having some fail to hatch is moderately common, but you do seem to have a really high rate of ones that developed but then did not hatch.

Possible causes of the problem would include genetic issues, dietary deficiencies (the parent birds that produced the eggs), how the eggs were stored and handled before incubation, temperature or humidity issues during incubation.

Unfortunately I don't know any of the actual details just a basic idea of where to start looking.

They may be dead. If they are dead, there is nothing you can do to help.


You could look for ideas in this article:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/guide-to-assisted-hatching-for-all-poultry.72886/
It has a lot of information about assisting chicks to help, including both when to help and how to help.

Given how many days have passed, I think it might be reasonable to carefully open one egg from the big (aircell) end. If the chick dead, open another egg. Continue until you have checked them all. If you find a live chick, put the egg back in the incubator and do more research on what to do next.

I would expect to find them all dead in this case, but the way to be sure is to actually check. If they are dead, you will not do any harm by opening the eggs. If they are alive, but they are already this many days overdue, it may be time to assist them anyway.


If the chicks are alive, there are quite a few possibilities.
If the chicks are dead, there are even more possibilities but they are different ones.

Any time you incubate eggs, if some chicks fail to hatch, you may want to consider opening the unhatched eggs and see what you can learn from them. For example, if the chicks are deformed, that might point to one set of explanations. If the chicks appear completely normal, things like whether they absorbed the yolk or not can also point to some explanations or others.

Hatching is a difficult time for chicks, and having some fail to hatch is moderately common, but you do seem to have a really high rate of ones that developed but then did not hatch.

Possible causes of the problem would include genetic issues, dietary deficiencies (the parent birds that produced the eggs), how the eggs were stored and handled before incubation, temperature or humidity issues during incubation.

Unfortunately I don't know any of the actual details just a basic idea of where to start looking.

Since posting, I did some research.
I know the eggs were good. I got them
from a local farm very near me with a great reputation and very good hatch rate.
I candled the eggs and they looked amazing.
When the initial 6 hatched, dried and became active, they were running through the incubator banhing into other eggs and even flipped some 180 degrees. I think that caused the unhatched chicks to have their heads moved out of the air pocket.
Over the past hour I floated them all to find the air pocket and used a tiny drill to make an air hole. I'm afraid I was too late, those moving and chirping 4 days ago are lifeless. I believe the deformed ones that last hatched had brain damage from lack of oxygen. If nothing by tomorrow morning, I'll open them.

 

[MyNYfarm]

I think the temperature is a bit high but other than that I don’t see what the problem could be unless they are genetically bad?

Really? I was told 100.5 or 101 is perfect.

 

[NatJ]

Since posting, I did some research.
I know the eggs were good. I got them
from a local farm very near me with a great reputation and very good hatch rate.
I candled the eggs and they looked amazing.

That seems to rule out many of the possible causes!

When the initial 6 hatched, dried and became active, they were running through the incubator banhing into other eggs and even flipped some 180 degrees. I think that caused the unhatched chicks to have their heads moved out of the air pocket.

That is certainly one possible explanation.

But it has me puzzled, because it is quite common for the first chicks to bash the other eggs around, and people often have good hatches anyway. So I don't know what would be different in this case as compared with other cases.

Over the past hour I floated them all to find the air pocket and used a tiny drill to make an air hole. I'm afraid I was too late, those moving and chirping 4 days ago are lifeless. I believe the deformed ones that last hatched had brain damage from lack of oxygen. If nothing by tomorrow morning, I'll open them.

In future, I would probably find the air cell by candling instead of floating. That way you aren't getting water on or in the eggs (possible drowning risk if they are alive, does not matter if they are already dead.)

I'd be curious to hear what you discover tomorrow.

Really? I was told 100.5 or 101 is perfect.

I've read that the "perfect" temperature is different for some kinds of incubators than others (based on whether the air is moving, and where in the incubator the temperature is being measured.) That could be a reason you are getting conflicting information.

The eggs actually need the same temperature in any case, but the thermometer reading might not match.

Higher temperatures can cause the chicks to hatch a bit earlier, and lower temperatures can cause the chicks to hatch a bit later. Given that you had six chicks hatch on day 19, when the usual time is 21 days, I think the temperature probably was a bit high.

 

[MyNYfarm]

In future, I would probably find the air cell by candling instead of floating. That way you aren't getting water on or in the eggs (possible drowning risk if they are alive, does not matter if they are already dead.

I'd be curious to hear what you discover tomorrow.

I'll update you tomorrow.

I'm certain that no water got in the eggs after floating, so if there is any chance of life, I've done all I can for now.
Hoping for the best, prepared for the worst.