Why can't you use Ivermectin in chickens water for cocci , mites ?

[luvarabhorses]

Just wondering why people use all different antibiotics to get rid of an intestinal parasitic worm ? I've been putting Ivermectin in the water once every three months and haven't had any signs of cocci or mites for a year.

Hi, need to make the question clearer.
I do paste worm my horses with ivermectin.
However....
I take 500 lbs of the tube marking, shake it in a gallon jug of water
and add this to another gallon in a free standing waterer for my chickens.
Maybe I misunderstood but I thought the medicated feed in chick starter is an antibiotic, aureomycin (chlortetracycline bisulfate), and sulmet-sulfamethazine bisulfate.
This kills all the cocci and the mites. With so many people asking "what is this blood in my chickens poo" and getting the advice of sulmet, just not understanding..... when it seems Ivermectin should wipe out the cocci and last way way longer. Cocci are parasites- correct??

 

[horsejody]

As far as I know antibiotics are not used to treat worms.

 

[NotTheMomma]

In my experience, the Ivermectin is either in a tube, and a paste (That's what the horse's get!), or in a bottle of injectible solution. The injectible solution, IMO, would either float on the top of the water, if it's in an oil solution, or evaporate out if in an alcohol solution. When giving directly, I know they've gotten their dose, and not too much, or too little. With dogs, too much can be harmful, and too little won't be effective. Thus my reasoning on not putting it in the water.

Oh, and with the horses, if they smell ANYTHING in their feed, or water, they won't eat it!! Mine are peticular! So, the paste and holding the head up until they swallow works best for me. Some people DO mix it with their feed, and only make sure they've eaten their dosage. Many horses will even eat it on a carrot, though mine hate carrots! Ugh!

 

[TriciaHowe]

Quote:
Ivermectin isn't an antibiotic, it's an antiparasitic.

 

[luvarabhorses]

Hi, need to make the question clearer.
I do paste worm my horses with ivermectin.
However....
I take 500 lbs of the tube marking, shake it in a gallon jug of water
and add this to another gallon in a free standing waterer for my chickens.
Maybe I misunderstood but I thought the medicated feed in chick starter is an antibiotic, aureomycin (chlortetracycline bisulfate), and sulmet-sulfamethazine bisulfate.
This kills all the cocci and the mites. With so many people asking "what is this blood in my chickens poo" and getting the advice of sulmet, just not understanding.....

 

[Cetawin]

cocci requires antibiotics Ivermectin is a wormer simple as that. Ivermectin will do nothing to prevent or stop cocci. mites I am not sure about, maybe.

I used ivermectin pour on for my flock.

 

[horsejody]

Cocci is a protozoan parasitic disease. The medication in medicated feed is usually amprolium. It works by mimicing thiamin (Vitamin B1) which is required by coccidia for normal growth and reproduction. When coccidia ingest amprolium, they experience thiamin deficiency and starve from malnutrition. I do not believe that amprolium is an antibiotic. It is designed to allow the chicks a chance to build a natural immunity. If your birds have cocci, the damage can cause infections that are treated with antibiotics. The antibiotics treat the infection, and gives the chicks' bodies the opportunity to beat the parasite. If I a wrong, I hope someone will correct me and post better info.

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

Coccidiosis does not need a antibiotic to cure the chickens
antibiotics just inflame coccidiosis

IVERMECTIN it is NOT A ANTIBIOTIC period

USE OF IVERMEC FOR WORMS & LEG MITES
BY Dr Curtis Geary VMD

CURTIS GEARY <[email protected]> wrote:

Those of you that like ivermectin (ivomec), the 1% cattle injectable solution works as well. The dose that I use on my Old English and Rosecomb Bantams is 0.1ml by mouth per bird for 5 weeks. That is only 1/10th of a cc for ivermectin, just make sure you don't give more that 1/10th of a cc which is the same as 0.1 ml. So, these are the treatments that I use and tell my clients to use and we have excellent success with them. Hope this helps.

Curtis Geary, VMD

IVERMECTIN FOR MITES, LICE, WORMING
Also severl people use Ivomec wormer 1% water soluble or 5% oil based and put on the bird. Injectable 1% is used inside the bird in injection or in the water. And


5% oil based is used on the shoulder of the bird only.

Not inside the bird.
Directions for 5% ivomec with oil base put on shoulder only not internally.

(1 1 drop small bantam such as female OE
(2 2 drops large bantam male like OE
(3 3 drops most bantams
(4 4 drops larger bantams and smaller commercial hens
(5 5 drops commercial large fowl and smaller large
fowl
(5 5 drops Large fowl chicken
(7 7 drops larger males of large fowl breeds of
Chickens.
(A 5% oil type Ivomec Stays on the birds for at least
6 weeks. and is the reason it is only used on the out
side under the feathers on the shoulder of the
chickens. Slow release time.
(B 1% water soulable is injectable and can be used in
the water.


I will try to answer your questions as fully as I can. Since we are using ivermectin in an off-label fashion, first I need to say the birds being given ivermectin should not be used for food and the eggs should not be eaten. I am only saying this because I am a veterinarian and this is an off-label use and I am not aware of any controlled studies on the subject of withdrawal times. So for legal and safety reasons don't cull and eat these birds. \\
However, we eat beef, chicken, pork, etc. everyday that had previously been given ivermectin, but established withdrawal times have been (or should have been) followed. The information that is to follow is from my own personal experience and is not substantiated in any scientific journals as far as I know and is purely for informational use. (That's the end of my little legal/safety speech).

What can happen if too much ivermectin is given? Well, so far I haven't seen an overdose of ivermectin in chickens, however I will extrapolate from other species. Most of the signs have to deal with the neurologic (nervous) system and occasionally involve the digestive system. In the dogs that I have seen, in mild cases the dogs just act like they are "drunk". They stumble, have difficulty standing up and usually can't walk a straight line.

The moderate cases have this plus sometimes have blindness. Both of these cases usually resolve in 3-5 days with just some supportive care. The most severe case that I have seen was a 6 month old black lab puppy that ate the entire dose for a 1,000 pound horse after the horse spit out the wormer on the ground. It was comatose for 23 days, blind for another 10 days and is normal today (2 years later). So the overdose effects can vary, usually very dramatic, but usually resolve. However, death can occur with an overdose.

I like the 1% injectable form because I can draw up exactly 0.1 ml and give it in the breast muscle or by mouth. I also like it because I know that the ivermectin is then getting into the bloodstream. From other studies we know that ivermectin is absorbed into the bloodstream from the digestive tract. With the 5% oil based solution, it was made to be absorbed through the skin of cattle that has a fatty layer, oil glands, haired skin, sweat glands, etc. and this is totally different than poultry. I am not saying if it works or not. I've never tried it, for those reasons.

The dosages that you have listed look like they would be a good starting point. I would first try them on some culls rather than your best birds and if it works then continue with it. Since chickens have an oil gland near the tail the ivermectin may accumulate there and last longer than the injectable form, I really don't think (but don't know) if it is going to hang around on the body for 6 weeks though. I would be interested to know of anyone else's experiences though.

LEG MITES
Those of you trying to make a product for leg mites, if you enjoy making home remedies and want the "organic" treatment go for it, but really, commercially available products are readily available and work very, very well. I bought some chickens at a local swap meet for one of my genetics projects and they had scaly leg mites. I sprayed the legs once with Ovitrol flea and tick spray by VetKem, gave them 0.1 ml ivermectin by mouth, tested them for Avian influenza, and Pollorum/Typhoid, vaccinated them for Laryngotracheitis, banded them (had to use big bands cause the leg mites were so bad) and placed them in my quarantine barn where they would reside for 6 weeks. About 4 weeks into the quarantine I noticed some of the birds bands were laying at the bottom of the cage.
When I went to put them back on I noticed that the scaly legs were completely healed and the reason that the bands were laying at the bottom to the cage is because the legs had returned to their normal size and the bands just slipped right off. All that from one application and one treatment of ivermectin.
Well, I hope I have answered your questions and I hope that I have not bored the rest of you with this long winded message.
Thanks for the inquiry.

Dr Curtis Geary

 

[horsejody]

I don't think ivermectin treats cocci. Please tell me if I am wrong.

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

Also on the other info listed here
also it is a waste of medication to give chickens paste wormer ivermectin as the horses use the whole tube
so floating some in water does not get the mites, lice or worms

you have to use the 1% ivermectin which goes along with gycol in shots for the chickens

5% is oil based and given on the neck flesh for worming or mites and lice

Info on using pate wormer horse Ivermectin

My friend Nathalie Ross who was a vet tech sent me this info

equine paste wormer
From: "Nathalie Ross"
OK, here we go again.

On equine paste wormers, they're formulated to give almost the whole tube to a horse. For ponies, you'll use less, but you're not using a teaspoon or so of dosage. These pastes are premixed, but they're NOT mixed entirely equally. Giving one teaspoon or so of a paste will mean you're either giving a concentration of wormer MUCH MUCH greater than you want, or too little, or pretty much an inconsistant batch.

As for it being less expensive, NOT SO! As a equestrienne who has used this product since it first came on the market, as a 'hand' who has helped worm cattle for the years that she worked them, and as an exotic owner who has researched the products for use in other animals I can absolutely 100% guarantee you that paste ivermectins are about the most expensive route you can go.

Hello - horses are luxury animals. If you don't believe that, check out how much some of their shampoos cost compared to ours. The paste is drastically marked up. I've worked in the horse supplementation industry and in the veterinary medicine industry, I've worked with the people selling this stuff and setting prices on equine products for the industry. You pay for playing with pretty expensive horses.

Ivermectin pour on can worm thousands and thousands of pounds of animals for only $40.00. One tube of Zimectrin worms one approx. 1,300 lb horse for $15-20 dollars. Furthermore, anyone who has ever used paste wormers realizes that the stuff doesn't stick into the mouth of an animal that doesn't want it there. Dogs would be different; note, she said they lick it off. I can guarantee you that a combination of saliva and willfullness will mean that you'll put more equine paste on the ground and your hands than in an animal's mouth.

As for using it on smaller animals, it's recommended that you totally empty the paste tube, mix it thoroughly (remember this is made to use almost the whole tube, not small amounts) and go from there. If you're insistant on using a tube (not everyone can afford the $40.00 even if it is more economical, and I can' certainly understand that) then as a reference, a one pound rat gets the amount of paste equal to the size of a rice grain.

Now, imagine how you're going to make sure you correctly dose your animal <wink>. Thankfully ivermectin has a good range for safety in poultry. The range isn't as safe for dogs or cats (thus the problems with collies).

In any case, good luck, and please - understand the product.

Nathalie Ross,