911 IS THIS MAREKS?

[jlangridge]

I have a four month old EE that started displaying symptoms for an injured leg about five days ago. she was walking on one of her hocks and hobbling along. I put her in a Rubbermaid tote to force her to rest it, but it seems as though it may be getting worse. I took her out today to see if it was getting better and it definitely is not.
Things to note:
All of my chickens are unvaccinated.
I had another hen displaying some of the same symptoms but came about a bit differently. She was high stepping and then started not being able to walk well at all. Sitting on her hocks constantly and walking on them too. I have been giving her Poly Vit Sol drops because I thought maybe it was a riboflavin deficiency after doing a lot of research. She seems to be getting better. Back to walking more but still high stepping. And now exhibiting loss of some of her sight. Pecking at food but completely missing, running into things, the high stepping.
I treated for lice a week ago with Doktor Doom lice spray.
They are all fed commercial chicken feed.
I’m new to my little flock since this spring. I have 11 chickens.
I’m getting very nervous that it’s Mareks. I’ve attached some pics and some links to videos of her trying to walk. The videos aren’t great cause I couldn’t get her to walk much!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

What is the commercial chicken feed - chick starter or layer feed? How long have they been eating that particular formula? Can you post the ingredient label?

Got a video of the high stepping pullet? Is her crop emptying overnight?

Did they have lice?

I think I would try vitamin therapy - Give 400IU Vitamin E and 1/4-1/2 B-Complex daily. Also give a treat of egg once a day to help with the uptake of E.

It could be Marek's, hard to know unless you lose one and have a necropsy performed.
The vaccine doesn't stop birds from becoming infected with the virus and having symptoms, but it can help stop the formation of tumors.

Keep up with the vitamins. Look around to make sure that none of their feed has gotten molded. Could they have gotten into something toxic (fertilizer, weed killer, spilled oil, etc.)

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/

 

[jlangridge]

What is the commercial chicken feed - chick starter or layer feed? How long have they been eating that particular formula? Can you post the ingredient label?

Got a video of the high stepping pullet? Is her crop emptying overnight?

Did they have lice?

I think I would try vitamin therapy - Give 400IU Vitamin E and 1/4-1/2 B-Complex daily. Also give a treat of egg once a day to help with the uptake of E.

It could be Marek's, hard to know unless you lose one and have a necropsy performed.
The vaccine doesn't stop birds from becoming infected with the virus and having symptoms, but it can help stop the formation of tumors.

Keep up with the vitamins. Look around to make sure that none of their feed has gotten molded. Could they have gotten into something toxic (fertilizer, weed killer, spilled oil, etc.)

https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/

Thank you for your reply and insight!
I have attached a picture of their food label. They have been on this food for a couple of weeks, before that they were on chick starter food.
I have attached a video of Peri high stepping.
I found lice a few weeks ago on two of them (the high stepping one included) so I sprayed the coop two times to treat.
I will continue on with the poly vit sol and grab some more vitamins from the pharmacy!
they’re in a chicken run so I can’t find anything toxic that they may have gotten into.
My high stepping girl, Peri, has gotten better at walking in the past couple of weeks. She had gotten so bad that she could hardly walk but is doing better. Is that ever seen with Marek’s? Do you know?

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Peri is lovely. I see she has a buddy

Let's go over this - were either one having issues before you switched feed?

Personally, I would feed chick starter if it's higher protein than 15%. I know the feeding instructions is recommended for their age, but I prefer for young birds to have higher protein 18-20%.

Going over this too - is Peri's crop emptying overnight? What's her poop like? Do you notice any yeasty or sour odor from her?

I would give them both vitamin therapy to see if that helps.

Birds that have Marek's can recover from paralysis. My understanding is sometimes the paralysis is caused by inflammation of the sciatic nerve. Marek's is a virus that can affect the nervous system, so symptoms can wax and wane. This seems to be one of the frustrating parts of dealing with the disease.

I've seen the high stepping with birds that have sour crop too, but no that you have another that is unable to walk well...I would suspect you are dealing with disease.

Let me tag in @microchick to get her input - see if she sees something I don't.

 

[microchick]

Thank you for the tag, @Wyorp Rock.

Good morning @jlangridge. I looked at the pictures and the videos of what you are dealing with. You have beautiful girls and I can tell you are giving them excellent care.

From what I'm seeing with Maeby--I did a little moan when I saw her. The picture sure looks like scissor paralysis of Marek's Disease to me.

I pulled this picture off the net of a hen with full Marek's paralysis with both legs extended but in opposite directions. The paralysis will start in one leg and slowly progress to both. I had one 9 week old that exhibited those symptoms almost textbook in their progression. First one leg then the other until it was struggling to move and being picked on by it's flock mates until I euthanized it.

And this picture of a bird with ocular Marek's disease. Does your birds pupil look like the bottom bird in this picture? The upper birds eye is normal in comparison.

I agree with Wyorp. Vitamin therapy doesn't hurt. It will help keep your flock healthy, but the only way you are going to get a definitive diagnosis is with MD is through a necropsy.

I will say that is sure looks suspiciously to me like you are dealing with MD in your flock.

Yes, birds can recover from the paralysis in the initial infection but will succumb to the disease later from tumors or profound neurological disorders. None of my affected birds lived past 3 to 3.5 years. Most of my roosters only lived to 1 year of age before developing cancers and neurological problems.

My best advice is to take a wait and see stance with them right now. You will know in time what is going on for sure. I know how hard that is to hear and do but if it is MD, you will lose a bird eventually either to disease or to culling. You need to watch for an escalation of symptoms in them along with weight loss in spite of a healthy appetite.

The bird that is exhibiting blindness is a point of concern to me. A blind bird cannot find food and water on its own. Is she drinking and eating for you if you hand feed her? Have you tried putting her in a dark room or at night using a flashlight to check her pupil reaction? Does her pupil react to light when you wave the flashlight past it or does it stay pinpoint like the bird's eye in the photo?

I had 4 birds with ocular Marek's disease and all retained enough vision that they lived to be 3 years of age before succumbing to the disease. Each developed symptoms of stroke and or neurological symptoms that forced me to put them down.

But like I said. Time will tell. In the mean time keep up with the good feed and vitamins. Treat you flock from this point on as a MD positive flock. It isn't the end of the world as everyone is lead to believe. It just means you have a closed flock until you know for certain what is going on. No birds out, no birds in. If you are MD positive then you need to start breeding for resistance, looking for birds that survive 4 years or more and breed from those birds.

Yes, you will lose birds if you have Marek's in your flock but you won't lose all of your birds. And you aren't alone. There are a LOT of Marek's flocks on BYC. It will get bad for awhile but then it will get better. Hang on to that thought and don't be afraid to ask questions. We are here to help one another on this forum.

 

[jlangridge]

Thank you for the tag, @Wyorp Rock.

Good morning @jlangridge. I looked at the pictures and the videos of what you are dealing with. You have beautiful girls and I can tell you are giving them excellent care.

From what I'm seeing with Maeby--I did a little moan when I saw her. The picture sure looks like scissor paralysis of Marek's Disease to me.

View attachment 2830898
I pulled this picture off the net of a hen with full Marek's paralysis with both legs extended but in opposite directions. The paralysis will start in one leg and slowly progress to both. I had one 9 week old that exhibited those symptoms almost textbook in their progression. First one leg then the other until it was struggling to move and being picked on by it's flock mates until I euthanized it.

View attachment 2830899
And this picture of a bird with ocular Marek's disease. Does your birds pupil look like the bottom bird in this picture? The upper birds eye is normal in comparison.

I agree with Wyorp. Vitamin therapy doesn't hurt. It will help keep your flock healthy, but the only way you are going to get a definitive diagnosis is with MD is through a necropsy.

I will say that is sure looks suspiciously to me like you are dealing with MD in your flock.

Yes, birds can recover from the paralysis in the initial infection but will succumb to the disease later from tumors or profound neurological disorders. None of my affected birds lived past 3 to 3.5 years. Most of my roosters only lived to 1 year of age before developing cancers and neurological problems.

My best advice is to take a wait and see stance with them right now. You will know in time what is going on for sure. I know how hard that is to hear and do but if it is MD, you will lose a bird eventually either to disease or to culling. You need to watch for an escalation of symptoms in them along with weight loss in spite of a healthy appetite.

The bird that is exhibiting blindness is a point of concern to me. A blind bird cannot find food and water on its own. Is she drinking and eating for you if you hand feed her? Have you tried putting her in a dark room or at night using a flashlight to check her pupil reaction? Does her pupil react to light when you wave the flashlight past it or does it stay pinpoint like the bird's eye in the photo?

I had 4 birds with ocular Marek's disease and all retained enough vision that they lived to be 3 years of age before succumbing to the disease. Each developed symptoms of stroke and or neurological symptoms that forced me to put them down.

But like I said. Time will tell. In the mean time keep up with the good feed and vitamins. Treat you flock from this point on as a MD positive flock. It isn't the end of the world as everyone is lead to believe. It just means you have a closed flock until you know for certain what is going on. No birds out, no birds in. If you are MD positive then you need to start breeding for resistance, looking for birds that survive 4 years or more and breed from those birds.
Yes, you will lose birds if you have Marek's in your flock but you won't lose all of your birds. And you aren't alone. There are a LOT of Marek's flocks on BYC. It will get bad for awhile but then it will get better. Hang on to that thought and don't be afraid to ask questions. We are here to help one another on this forum.

Thank you so much for taking time and replying with such useful knowledge. Sorry, I have been meaning to get back to you for a long time but I have two little ones and they keep me VERY busy haha. So, an update! I treated Maeby and Peri with Vitamin E, Vitamin B Complex, and Poly-Vi-Sol for about 10ish days and Maeby (seems to have) made a complete recovery! She just needs to gain back a bit of weight. But looking at her now, I would never know that she ever had anything wrong with her. Peri is back to walking normally, not high stepping or anything, but it does seem like she is partially blind. She can still find the waterer and feeder, but if I put a piece of food in front of her she will peck at it but miss many times before getting to it. She is often turning her neck as if shes trying to look at something with just one eye, and the others pick on her. She stays in the coop most of the day, and if she goes outside, she usually gets bullied. It's so sad. I think that I'll start free ranging her in the yard during the day while keeping the rest of the chickens in their run. That way Peri can still have some outside time.

So, now I'm really confused! Was this all from vitamin deficiencies or is it truly Mareks? I have heard that vitamin A deficiencies can cause blindness. I just don't know! None of my other chickens have been showing symptoms of MD yet so that's hopeful but maybe they will. Sigh.

Also just out of curiosity, do you think that Maeby and Peri will ever be able to lay eggs?

 

[microchick]

My Marek's hens laid normally. Usually what I saw is that their egg production fell off at an earlier age compared to my Amish Barnyard crosses.

Recovering from the initial infection of Marek's isn't unheard of. 100% of my original flock survived the initial infection of the disease without even showing any signs of being sick. The roosters began to sicken and die at anywhere from 1 year to 18 months. My hen with ocular Marek's disease showed symptoms at just over one year of age during the stress of brooding a second batch of eggs.

What you will want to watch for now is the secondary infections of MD. These will kill the chicken if you are indeed dealing with Marek's. Those symptoms can be anything from weigh loss, tumors, infections, neurological problems that include tremors, walking in circles, seizures and catastrophic weight loss.

With your vision impaired hen, how do her pupils look? Is her eye color normal or has it turned into a sickly grey/green color? Is her pupil pin point and abnormal shaped? If it is, then you are dealing with ocular Marek's disease. My birds with it all developed neurological problems and what looked like stroke symptoms at the end. All were skeletally thin so you need to be very alert to changes in their health.

It will be hard to get weight back on them. You can try extra protein in the form of tuna or scrambled eggs but it isn't going to be easy. That is just the nature of Marek's Disease. And as for your blind hen, be careful putting her in unfamiliar surroundings. If you have a safe small fenced in area for her to be in that is where I would put her. If she is finding food and water and you take her out of her normal surroundings she is going to struggle to find the water bowl or food away from where it normally is.

IMHO better to keep her in familiar surroundings with a 'buddy' to keep her company. My birds with OMD did very well but never ventured far from the coop. Bright light appeared to be painful for them. One hen, Sassy, would come out in the afternoon but stay in the shade.

I'm glad your birds have survived but unfortunately you will not know 100% for sure what you are dealing with until one dies and you can get a necropsy done on the remains.

I invite you to read my article concerning my personal experiences with Marek's Disease:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-i-learned-to-deal-with-mareks-disease.76944/

 

[jlangridge]

My Marek's hens laid normally. Usually what I saw is that their egg production fell off at an earlier age compared to my Amish Barnyard crosses.

Recovering from the initial infection of Marek's isn't unheard of. 100% of my original flock survived the initial infection of the disease without even showing any signs of being sick. The roosters began to sicken and die at anywhere from 1 year to 18 months. My hen with ocular Marek's disease showed symptoms at just over one year of age during the stress of brooding a second batch of eggs.

What you will want to watch for now is the secondary infections of MD. These will kill the chicken if you are indeed dealing with Marek's. Those symptoms can be anything from weigh loss, tumors, infections, neurological problems that include tremors, walking in circles, seizures and catastrophic weight loss.

With your vision impaired hen, how do her pupils look? Is her eye color normal or has it turned into a sickly grey/green color? Is her pupil pin point and abnormal shaped? If it is, then you are dealing with ocular Marek's disease. My birds with it all developed neurological problems and what looked like stroke symptoms at the end. All were skeletally thin so you need to be very alert to changes in their health.

It will be hard to get weight back on them. You can try extra protein in the form of tuna or scrambled eggs but it isn't going to be easy. That is just the nature of Marek's Disease. And as for your blind hen, be careful putting her in unfamiliar surroundings. If you have a safe small fenced in area for her to be in that is where I would put her. If she is finding food and water and you take her out of her normal surroundings she is going to struggle to find the water bowl or food away from where it normally is.

IMHO better to keep her in familiar surroundings with a 'buddy' to keep her company. My birds with OMD did very well but never ventured far from the coop. Bright light appeared to be painful for them. One hen, Sassy, would come out in the afternoon but stay in the shade.

I'm glad your birds have survived but unfortunately you will not know 100% for sure what you are dealing with until one dies and you can get a necropsy done on the remains.

I invite you to read my article concerning my personal experiences with Marek's Disease:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...-i-learned-to-deal-with-mareks-disease.76944/

Well, a sad day has come. My husband put down Maeby this morning and she is being sent off today to get a necropsy done. She began to decline rapidly again and her quality of life was so poor. It's a sad day in our house. I'm thinking Peri, the white chicken, will be next. She's the blind one. She is so very thin and stands around all day. The others pick on her. She has diarrhea. I think she is not having a very pleasant existence anymore and I don't want to be selfish and keep her around just because she is my favourite. I think at this point it will be kinder to let her go. Thank you for all of your input and that was a wonderful article you wrote! You're a very talented writer and i enjoyed reading it(and also not enjoyed because ugh! Marek's!).

Will try to keep you posted on what they find with the necropsy.

Thank you for your support!

 

[microchick]

Well, a sad day has come. My husband put down Maeby this morning and she is being sent off today to get a necropsy done. She began to decline rapidly again and her quality of life was so poor. It's a sad day in our house. I'm thinking Peri, the white chicken, will be next. She's the blind one. She is so very thin and stands around all day. The others pick on her. She has diarrhea. I think she is not having a very pleasant existence anymore and I don't want to be selfish and keep her around just because she is my favourite. I think at this point it will be kinder to let her go. Thank you for all of your input and that was a wonderful article you wrote! You're a very talented writer and i enjoyed reading it(and also not enjoyed because ugh! Marek's!).

Will try to keep you posted on what they find with the necropsy.

Thank you for your support!

Bless you, Maeby and Peri. I know it's not easy to do but there comes a time when we know that the last gift of love we can give them is to let them go peacefully and with dignity.

Thank you so much for your kind words.

 

[JCinNM]

So sorry for your losses. Hoping for the best for the rest of your flock.