A Conversation on Equine Breeding/I Need Advice

CHICKEN CRAZY1

Crowing
7 Years
Nov 6, 2012
5,211
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256
In the coop talking to my chickens.
Hi everyone!

I have been riding horses for about nine years now, and have been training for more than six. I have trained several rescues and I have decided to take the next step and train a horse from “the ground up” out of a beloved mare. It has been a lifelong dream to breed my own foal. I have done extensive research on the subject via textbooks (as many as I could get my hands on! Lol), forums, online articles, etc. I wanted to learn about this subject because it interests me and is good to know, even If I wasn’t going to breed, so I have devoured everything I can. I have had experience with bovine parturition on the family farm and have raised many bottle calves (I know this is not the same as equine, but it is what I have! Lol) If everything goes well and she can pass a BSE, I will be breeding Glory this summer (I can get some pics if you all want ;D) What I wanted to know is three things:
1) When is the best time for a breeding soundness exam? (she is definitely getting one. Sorry girl! Lol) I wish to have her bred in May so I can fall back in June or July (Three of the equines’ more fertile months due to daylight) I have been unable to find a clearer answer on this. The only advice I have found is that it should be done out of anestrus, and as much time as possible before breeding. When I contacted the owner of the stallion, she said the vet would be able to give her hormone treatment to help her come into heat or ovulate, and tell how close she is to ovulation through palpating or ultrasound. So I a bit confused on when I should have her BSE done. Or should the vet visit twice before she is covered?

2) How old is too old or what is your experience breeding the older mare? Glory will be 21 at the time of cover and I have no knowledge of previous breedings or foals. For all I know she is a maiden. I have read some success stories with maidens older than Glory, but I know I should expect no miracles. Glory is very fit and healthy, with good conformation and disposition. I have read that it depends on the individual mare, but I would like to hear from people with firsthand experience.

3) Do you have any advice/stories/encouragement/experience to pass on to me? Anything is welcome!

Note:
I have read many forums regarding this subject and nearly every one has had at least one of the following arguments. I am addressing them here (as they apply to me) to save time, eliminate confusion, and to keep a debate from starting. I understand that these people have a point and have a right to their opinion, I just do not wish for anyone to jump the gun or misunderstand me. That being said, I thank you all for taking time to look at my thread and give me an answer or join the conversation. It is greatly appreciated! Thank you!

“Don’t breed your horse, adopt instead. There are tons of horses that need good homes, don’t add to the problem.” I currently have three rescues; two of which were rescued from severe “emotional” trauma, one from starvation. I am well aware of rescues, their needs and values, and love my rescues very much. They have helped me to become a better trainer, rider and owner. I do agree that people shouldn’t breed horses senselessly, but have a responsibility to propagate only proven equine or horses of good specimen. The stallion I have chosen is a very good example of the quarter horse breed in conformation, temperament, bloodlines, and winnings. His foals are proven workers, winners, and performers. I do not plan on breeding for profit at this point (even though the foal would be marketable in my area, so I have that option in place) but for my own experience and to have offspring of a much beloved mare, as well as to further my education and to fulfill a lifelong dream. I am and will continue to be responsible with my own animals. That is all I can do. I cannot control others who made the deplorable and cruel descision to not do so.

“You are not experienced enough” or “Leave breeding to the professionals or farms”
I heartily disagree with this assertion because I have personally known many “backyard” breeders to raise healthy animals of quality and training. I understand I am inexperienced, but as mentioned above, I have endeavored to learn as much as I can through what is available to me. I wish I could intern at a breeding farm, but I live in a more rural area and there are no stables near me, and only one small breeding farm which are not taking interns at the moment. “The professionals” had to start somewhere too.

“Don’t breed your backyard mare. Or hope for a copy of her, you won’t get one.” I know very well that an animal could never be “a copy” of another. My first horse, Rose, had three foals before she came to me, and I have seen and ridden her daughter. She is a spitting image in attitude, conformation and mannerisms, but at the same time is a very different animal. Each is unique. The mare I am wanting to breed is not necessarily the stereotypical backyard mare, she is a certain quality in conformation, health, and disposition that I do not think it irresponsible of me to breed her. If she was not these qualities, I would never breed, for her sake, mine, and the future foal’s.

“Buy a foal that is already on the ground if you want to train” as mentioned before, I live In a ritual area. There is only one “breeding farm” near, and their foals go for two thousand or more. And that is for a weanling! If I am going to spend that much money, I may as well spend it on a mare that I wish to have offspring of.

I understand the difficulties, financial and time sacrifice and requirements, potential problems, and risks I will undertake. I understand the risk to my mare as well. I will have the advice of a knowledgeable veterinarian every step of the way and will do nothing that endangers her life. If that means, on the advice of a veterinarian, that she would be in too much danger, I would never breed her.

Thank you so much for reading!
 
My vet and I have discussed many times that he wouldnt ever suggest breeding a maiden mare over 13 years old. He also says your chance of complications skyrockets expentially after age 16, even in experienced mares.
 
I have a small Welsh pony and her daughter who she foaled at 22, but she was a broodmare her whole life. I've heard that the chances of a maiden that age getting in goal are pretty slim, but that's hearsay, not data-based.
 
I agree with chickengoggles. When I was a kid we tried to breed two older mares (one late teens, the other around 20), both which never foaled before, and it did not go well. One never took, and when the other finally took it resulted in a miscarriage.
 
It's very likely to be more difficult to get and keep her in foal, so be prepared for more expenses than average. Her breeding evaluation will help too, a lot. Is your veterinarian experienced in repro, especially with older mares? Hope so!
My teenaged maiden mare had one nice foal, after serious effort by the veterinarian, with shipped semen. Live cover is likely to have better success, and frozen is the most difficult/ expensive to try. But if you will regret not trying, go for it!
One thing that I regretted later; I didn't pick the stallion of my dreams that first breeding, and there was never a second, because she then had issues that meant one foal was all she would ever have. Pick your best choice this time!!!
The stud fee may be the cheapest part of the whole thing...
Mary
 
Twenty-one is awfully aged for a maiden. What does your vet think?
Your vet is the one who should be answering these questions. I agree with @chickengoggles, though. Twenty one is WAY old for a first, or even a "first in a loooooong time" foaling. I'm not advising not to do it, just to think really really hard before you risk your "beloved mare." Have you considered a nurse-mare foal? Some of those babies are only a few weeks old - as close as you can get to breeding your own without actually having to go through the whole process with Glory. Most places will only adopt out in pairs, but will allow the second foal to be a "foster" until it's weaned. Most also require the presence of an older, more experienced horse (like Glory) to teach the babies how to be a horse, instead of the four-legged human they seem to think they are. Look into places like Last Chance Corral and such. You may just find your next equine soul-mate ... wobbly knees and all!
 
Thank you all for your replies!

It will be live cover. The veterinarian is extremely experienced in reproductive exams in cattle, especially palpation. I haven’t asked about his experience in equine reproduction. I will be sure to ask! She really doesn’t look her age at all, but a lot will depend on her exam (scar tissue, ovaries, health of uterus, etc.).
 
The stud fee may be the cheapest part of the whole thing...

You say you've been doing your research, so I am sure you know this, but there is a huge difference between breeding cows and breeding horses; the only real similarity is the size of the animal.

When I first "discovered" miniature horses, I thought I wanted to breed them. Then I stumbled into the Mare Stare forum, and spent a couple of seasons as a fly on the wall, watching horses inhale hay for days or even weeks in anticipation of a few minutes of sheer drama. I saw so many foalings go horribly wrong, I decided I really didn't want to do that after all (in fact, I bought my oversized mini Syd because I had known her from a foal, and when she came up for sale as a 2-year-old, I couldn't bear the thought of someone pushing her out into a pasture with a stud to risk her life for $200 foals). Granted, a lot of the bad ones were minis, which due to their size have more problems than average, but the very first mare I "stared at" was an appendix QH with the barn name of Grace that died a week after foaling of a displacement colic. Grace was only 7 or 8, this was her 3rd foal; the others had been colts and her owner had been thrilled to have a filly. She nearly lost the filly, though; some foals adapt readily to being bottle fed but this was one that didn't. After a couple of other attempts that didn't work out, the owner was put in touch with someone who owned a mare that had lost a foal and wasn't adjusting to the loss at all (interestingly, the mare had been bred to the same stallion, so the lost foal and this filly were half-siblings). Miraculously, the two took to each other immediately, and the foster raised her to weaning age with no further issues. The filly was registered as "See the Grace in Me" after her mom, of whom she was the spitting image . . . .

Good Lord, was all that really 11 years ago??! Doesn't time fly?:th

She's your horse, it's your decision. It's quite possible that breeding her may turn out to be something you regret, but then, not breeding her may be something you regret, too. Either way, I wish you well.
 
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