revolution ..yay!!

[sonomachx]

Yeah, like most of the drugs we use on our chickens, they are not licenced for chickens, but instead are used 'off-label' as recommended by vets. A very good veterinary paper about using it on birds and other animals is here: Efficacy and Safety of Selamectin Used Off-Label in Exotic Pets http://www.jarvm.com/articles/Vol5Iss3/Beck 87-96.pdf

Selamectin is considered to be a 'semi-synthetic' Avermectin. Selamectin and its related Avermectin compounds are non toxic. Selamectin is harmless if ingested by dog, cats and humans.
Another Avermectin is 'Ivermectin' and many people (on chicken forums) do not bother with a withholding period for eggs after Ivermectin. As Selamectin is in the same class, I would treat it the same way.

Avermectins are insecticidal/miticidal compounds derived from the soil bacterium Streptomyces avermitilis. It acts as an insecticide by affecting the nervous system of and paralyzing insects. Avermectins such as Abamectin are used to control insect and mite pests of citrus, pear, and nut tree crops (it gets put on our food)

Tests with laboratory animals show that ingested avermectin is not readily absorbed into the bloodstream by mammals and that it is rapidly eliminated from the body within 2 days via the feces.
http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/abamecti.htm

We seem to be in agreement re: the use of selamectin and ivermectin in back yard poultry. The drugs are safe for the birds and very effective. However, I want it to be clear to other members of these forums to take care if they are selling the eggs to people outside their family. Legally there are definitely issues with the use of these products in food animals. Withdrawal times for ivermectin use in dairy cows is between 28 and 53 days according to FARAD.org (Food Animal Residue Avoidance Database). It is also documented that ivermectin is distributed into the eggs of laying hens. As stated before, there are no published withdrawal times for selamectin in poultry. FARAD recommends at least a 35 day withdrawal time for ivermectin.

 

[ivan3]

sonomachx wrote: However, I want it to be clear to other members of these forums to take care if they are selling the eggs to people outside their family. Legally there are definitely issues with the use of these products in food animals. Withdrawal times for ivermectin use in dairy cows is between 28 and 53 days according to FARAD.org (Food Animal Residue Avoidance Database). It is also documented that ivermectin is distributed into the eggs of laying hens.

Usually, most folks go with the Eprinomectin, rather than the Ivermectin (not approved in poultry, but zero withdrawal in most ruminants): http://us.merial.com/producers/cow_calf/products/cowcalf_ivomec_eprinex.asp

Some ruminant research that won't bore one with ever more dairy cattle... http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5081658

 

[ChemKelly]

Usually, most folks go with the Eprinomectin, rather than the Ivermectin (not approved in poultry, but zero withdrawal in most ruminants): http://us.merial.com/producers/cow_calf/products/cowcalf_ivomec_eprinex.asp
Some ruminant research that won't bore one with ever more dairy cattle... http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5081658

Cheers, for that, very interesting.
Eprinomectin is a semi-synthetic compound of the avermectin family. Selamectin is also a semi-synthetic compound of the avermectin family. So I would assume that Selamecitin would act in the same manner and would also have zero withdrawal period.
I have some questions:

• Are there any parasite treatments that are actually "approved" for poultry?
• Is there a real law that states you cannot sell eggs if you have been giving your poultry a medication that is not approved for use in poultry (such as Eprinomectin, Selamectin or Ivermectin)? If there was a law, I would assume this law/regulation would only apply to commercial farming operations?

I can see that Eprinomectin is much cheaper than Selamecitin! $70 for 250ml which is equal to 500 doses (5kg chicken) that is only 14c per dose! Is that really the smallest size that you can buy? We should set up a share / trade system and repackage it into 10-20ml bottles.

 

[sonomachx]

Usually, most folks go with the Eprinomectin, rather than the Ivermectin (not approved in poultry, but zero withdrawal in most ruminants): http://us.merial.com/producers/cow_calf/products/cowcalf_ivomec_eprinex.asp
Some ruminant research that won't bore one with ever more dairy cattle... http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELPRDC5081658

Exactly. To use ivermectin routinely (as ChemKelly suggested) with no withdrawal time in any food animal intended for immediate sale of its milk or eggs is not a good idea from a legal standpoint. Eprinomectin may be a better choice, but finding a published dose for the pour-on cattle product to use in a significantly smaller chicken could be difficult.
Also, as I said before, if you are using the eggs for personal consumption and not sale, then it is your choice. If my personal chickens get mites, I would probably dose with selamectin. I would not sell the eggs.

 

[sonomachx]

Here are two links to the FDA's published statements on the issue of using non approved drugs in food animals. They do not make any distinction as to the size of the farming operation.

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/ComplianceManuals/CompliancePolicyGuidanceManual/ucm074661.htm

http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/ComplianceManuals/CompliancePolicyGuidanceManual/ucm074660.htm

The second link's policy guideline states, "Use by veterinarians and nonveterinarians (e.g., livestock and poultry producers, herdsmen, dealers, haulers, etc.) of veterinary drug products in food-producing animals contrary to label directions is illegal. Uses that are contrary to label directions would include ignoring labeled withdrawal times or milk discard times, using the product in a species not indicated on the label, using the drug to treat a condition not indicated on the label, administering the drug at a different dosage than stated on the label, or otherwise failing to follow label directions for use and administration of the drug."

 

[ChemKelly]

So just out of curiosity... There any no parasite drug treatments "approved" for poultry? Meaning that we cannot sell the eggs no matter what drug we use?

 

[ivan3]

Sure there are, and one of the most common is Sevin (Carbaryl). The suggested withdrawal is 7 days. However, it is most often used in powder form. It is difficult to remove from the environment (coops). All require caution. Ivermectin/eprinomectin haven't been approved in U.S. owing to overuse of other substances/meds in commercial production in the past.

Handy withdrawal chart: http://www.cfo.on.ca/_pdfs/PoultryWithdrawalTimeChart-Mar30-07.pdf


Dimetridazole is one example of overuse in a commercial setting that left Game bird/turkey breeders/owners without the most effective treatment for Blackhead (histomoniasis) disease. Instead, most of us keep Metronidazole (Flagyl) on hand even though use in poultry is verboten ( we don't eat our breeding stock or sell for food). Prohibited med list U.S. (along with most other signatories to trade treaties): http://www.farad.org/eldu/prohibit.asp

If you are interested in ivermectin use (particularly in humans - widely used in the tropics for River Blindness) and what constitutes a `safe dose' and extrapolate just how much residue might make it to eggs: http://www.inchem.org/

Since you are `Antipodal' you might want to check with the powers that be: http://www.apvma.gov.au/products/constituents/index.php

It is often difficult to determine the source of residues, regardless. A commercial production facility in Europe was accused of dosing their chickens with a Nitrofurasone derived antibiotic (absolutely prohibited) after testing of effluent from plant revealed that the breakdown product SEM-2 (can't test directly for med) was being discharged. Further testing revealed that the actual source of the SEM-2 could be traced, in small measure, to plastic gasket manufacturing. The majority of the SEM-2 was traced to human effluent that was contaminating the poultry producer's water supply. That's right, human antibiotic use circulating from their `waste' water back through the system.

 

[Georgia Nana]

If you have Nile River Blindness and you eat the eggs maybe the ivermectin will cure you! haha
Just don't see how eating the eggs can hurt, considering that hundreds of thousands of doses were sent to the Amazon region to treat the disease.

 

[PixieAndDust]

I absolutely love revolution! Been applying it to my cats faithfully since 1999. I will not even look at another flea/tick repellent. Although Revolution is the most expensive flea/tick repellent available, (around $60-$70 a box) it prevents and kills the most parasites with one application. Two separate products are required to do what Revolution can accomplish with one dosage.
I purchase the navy blue and white box for cats that weigh 5.1-15 lbs.
One box has six single-dose tubes each containing 0.75ml (45mg) of selamectin.
Chickens that weight 6.6 lbs. or less receive 0.15ml each per month
One 0.75ml tube will treat 5 chickens that weigh 6.6 lbs. or less
Since I already use Revolution it is awesome that it can be applied to my chickens too.
Old cliché: killing two birds with one stone.

 

[ChemKelly]

Hi PixieAndDust, if you buy the revolution for XL dogs, 1 tube will give you 6 cat doses.
Your cat dose will go from $11 down to $2! Just a thought.

All you need is a 1ml measuring syringe and a small vial with lid.

The cat version is only half the strength (60mg/ml) than that of the dog one. The cat tubes contain 0.75ml.
When using the dog version, the equivalent dose is halve of that - 0.37ml, that's for a 7.5kg cat anyhow. If your cat is only 5kg, you only need 0.25ml.

The minimum dose rate is 0.05ml per 1kg bodyweight (that's when using the dog version which is 120mg/ml)