Breed Standard?

[Shadrach]

Yes, I have the same issue but didn’t really express it as well as you when I was talking about the ‘French standard’ bird in the UK. It’s something I could have stressed on my comment about ‘poorly bred’ vs ‘impure’ too.

One thing I like about the English type is that the people who breed them often put the standard first, what I don’t like is that it isn’t the same standard as the original marans chooks.

I’m glad you brought it up actually because I don’t think any breed has suffered as poorly from this effect as the marans. Leghorns maybe are another example where drive for profit took away from the original traits of the breed.

One of the problems in my view is there is a lot more to a breed than the physical characteristics that most breeders concentrate on. The Marans for example originally laid between 100 and 150 eggs a year. Some now lay closer to 200 to 250 eggs a year. This has an impact on their behavior as well as their biology. A chicken hatched and raised by a free ranging broody is going to learn different behaviours to one hatched in an incubator and raised in a cage. The French Marans were farm birds and according to the French, made good foragers. In order to preserve the breed characteristics rather than just some approximation of looks they need at least similar keeping conditions.

 

[No Coop No Problem]

One of the problems in my view is there is a lot more to a breed than the physical characteristics that most breeders concentrate on.

Isn't SOP always focused on superficial aesthetics? Such a thing will always degrade quality over time as the essentials slip away unnoticed

 

[Shadrach]

Isn't SOP always focused on superficial aesthetics? Such a thing will always degrade quality over time as the essentials slip away unnoticed

It is unfortunately. There are breeders who have/are attempting to re-establish the original breed characteristics, but they are a very very small minority. One problem of course is it's rather expensive.

 

[Amer]

Isn't SOP always focused on superficial aesthetics? Such a thing will always degrade quality over time as the essentials slip away unnoticed

Not necessarily. This is what the SOP states

It is up to the breeders to decide if they want to follow that advice or not. But it's good to note a "dual purpose" breed won't follow the Standard if they don't have the required body.
It's good to note that the increase in egg production is partially due to improved nutrition.

 

[NatJ]

I think this one has yellow legs...

They look yellow...

I still don't see yellow, but if both of you do, then maybe the problem is with my computer

 

[Chicken_lady1]

T

In the second picture of the first post, I was pretty sure the legs look white. They are partly in sun and partly in shadow, but when I zoom in they look white in both lighting conditions.

Maybe it's a difference in my computer monitor vs. yours?

It sounds like you and I both think white legs are correct, we just don't agree about what color legs are actually on the rooster in the photo.

That might be easy to settle.
@Chicken_lady1 does your rooster have white legs or yellow legs?

His legs are a pale yellow, here are some pics! He has little stubby feathers on his feet that i’m not sure will grow out unfortunately

 

[Chicken_lady1]

I also think he has a good type (meaning body, size and symmetry). Not full marks but it is a promising combination of length, fullness and shape.

With the exception of the legs, which are the wrong colour and unfeathered, he has no major faults that will be horrible to work with if you breed him to BCM hens.

Are you planning to breed BCMs to the breed standard? If so, do you have any hens you would like me to evaluate?

Unfortunately he is my only BCM, I was planning on breeding him and one of my bantam Brahma when she gets older and do some line breeding since her feet are feathered. If you could help with my leghorn mix that would be great, she’s a mystery to me!

 

[wrathsfarm]

All the discussion here was very interesting to read. I appreciate all the insight and knowledge.
All my searches say the Black Copper originated from France so maybe I'm doing a wrong search not deep enough and haven't found any info yet. I'd be interested to know which breed variety or varieties originated in Marans, France. Were they just the Black Marans variety?
Referring back to the BCM post, I do make this abbreviation quite often and was corrected once that their is a question of is it a Black Copper or Blue Copper but to my knowledge Blue Copper is abbreviated BLCM or BlCM and when posting I try to start with -Black Copper Marans (BCM)- so others know what I'm referring to unless the topic is Black Copper Marans then the abbreviation should be a given. Yes, I'm American, I'm sorry....
Another thought I have is Marans SOP and their dark egg genetics go hand in hand of course which makes this variety so much harder to breed. I'm working with mine towards the SOP and dark eggs to try and preserve the heritage. But alas, I'm just a beginner and super small scale in this big universe of Marans.
Thank you to all that's participated here, I do appreciate the info and always welcome corrections when needed.

 

[NatJ]

Referring back to the BCM post, I do make this abbreviation quite often and was corrected once that their is a question of is it a Black Copper or Blue Copper but to my knowledge Blue Copper is abbreviated BLCM or BlCM and when posting I try to start with Black Copper Marans (BCM) so others know what I'm referring to unless the topic is Black Copper Marans then the abbreviation should be a given.

For clarity, it really helps if you state the name in full at least once in your post, so it is clear what you mean. There are always new people that don't know the abbreviations yet, that make up ones that seem perfectly logical on the instant.

Using Bl for Blue would be logical, but I have seen too many cases when B is clearly Blue. An obvious example is BBS for Black Blue Splash. And there is someone on the site who has Blue Australorps (commonly BA in their posts), while many other people have Black Australorps (BA). So at least for me personally, I do not trust "B" unless it is explained.

 

[wrathsfarm]

For clarity, it really helps if you state the name in full at least once in your post, so it is clear what you mean. There are always new people that don't know the abbreviations yet, that make up ones that seem perfectly logical on the instant.

Using Bl for Blue would be logical, but I have seen too many cases when B is clearly Blue. An obvious example is BBS for Black Blue Splash. And there is someone on the site who has Blue Australorps (commonly BA in their posts), while many other people have Black Australorps (BA). So at least for me personally, I do not trust "B" unless it is explained.

I edited my post above just for clarity of that post.. that I do try to start out with the name in full with abbreviations in parenthesis and then use BCM thru out the rest.
And thank you for that explanation. That makes total sense now. I use BA as Black Australorp also never thinking it could get confused/referring to Blue also.

Clarity is hard work....