Discussing details of mottled chicken genetics

[NatJ]

This thread is to continue a discussion that began in another thread:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/silkie-breeding-questions.1424097/page-3#post-23514878

@MysteryChicken
Can you re-post the pictures of your roosters and their feathers, along with listing their parents?
That way we'll have all the basics in one place.

We're trying to figure out which aspects of coloring come from the mottling gene, and which from other genes. Also, MysteryChicken said the mottling gene has apparently been behaving like a dominant gene, which is either confusing or fascinating to me

But we really were getting off-topic for the thread we were in, so we'll try to move it over here.

 

[MysteryChicken]

This thread is to continue a discussion that began in another thread:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/silkie-breeding-questions.1424097/page-3#post-23514878

@MysteryChicken
Can you re-post the pictures of your roosters and their feathers, along with listing their parents?
That way we'll have all the basics in one place.

We're trying to figure out which aspects of coloring come from the mottling gene, and which from other genes. Also, MysteryChicken said the mottling gene has apparently been behaving like a dominant gene, which is either confusing or fascinating to me

But we really were getting off-topic for the thread we were in, so we'll try to move it over here.

This can work too. I'll gather up the pictures, & stuff in a few minutes. Gonna eat breakfast first.

 

[MysteryChicken]

The Dad Of Bigfoot, one of the chickens in question, Squeakers is a cross of Mille Fleur D'uccle hen, & Silver Duckwing OEGB.

Here's Squeaker's Father, his name is Phoenix.

Here's Squeakers whose the son of Phoenix, & the Father of Bigfoot.

Here's Bigfoot, & his feather Samples.

Bigfoot is a mix of Mille Fleur D'uccle/OEGB X Silkie.

The hidden Genes within my Dominant white silkies, a few of them is Lavender, & Partridge. They're gold based white silkies. These are the genes I know are hidden within my white silkies.

I don't think they carry Mottling, but I did get a Blue Cuckoo cross out of them. The Father was a Blue Wheaten, Crow Wing, OEGB X Phoenix cross, & the mother was a white silkie. The chick was a cockerel, so i suspect the mother was carrying barring genes.
Anyway that's some of the Genetic history I know about my silkies.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I believe I have a dominant mottling gene within my birds, which will be awesome, but I have to do more experimenting next spring to confirm if it is dominant, or not.

 

[NatJ]

A lot of my information on mottling comes from this paper:

"The Mottling Gene, the Basis of Six Plumage Color Patterns in the Domestic Fowl"
by R.G. Somes, published 1979
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119355154
(There's a link on that page to download the whole .pdf)

That paper established that "mottling" (white tip on black feather) and "Mille Fleur" (white tip, black band, gold feather) and some others are indeed caused by the same recessive mottling gene. They discuss how the gene works, and they also crossed varieties to create a silver-mottled bird (similar to Millie Fleur or Speckled Sussex, but with silver instead of the gold.) They have various photos and diagrams in the paper.

One thing I found particularly interesting is how they say the mottling gene works: it makes a white tip on the feather, then some black, then the rest of the feather is colored according to whatever other genes the chicken has--black for Mottled Ancona, gold for Mille Fleur, etc. The black part can be affected by any genes that modify black (chocolate, blue, Dominant White, etc.)

The breeds they were studying all had mottling on black, or mottling on a gold base, so they also created a silver-mottled bird: white feather tip, black band, white on the rest of the feather.

 

[NatJ]

I believe I have a dominant mottling gene within my birds, which will be awesome, but I have to do more experimenting next spring to confirm if it is dominant, or not.

That will be interesting to see!

If you cross your rooster to a female who's known to not have mottling, it should be pretty easy to figure out. So a female of known ancestry would be best (maybe something common like a New Hampshire.)

I was re-reading some more of that paper, and they said one researcher thought mottling was dominant because on a wild-type background (e+), the chicks showed some mottling with only one copy of the gene--but when they raised the chicks longer, the mottling was not visible in the adult feathers unless the bird had two copies of the gene, so the authors of this paper decided to call it recessive. (I'm thinking that being able to identify the heterozygotes when young would be very handy in a breeding program!)

 

[MysteryChicken]

The white tip, plus white bar upon Bigfoot's feathers show as a consistent pattern in which I find fascinating, & believe is linked to the same gene. I'll be taking a close up of his feather pattern later if I have time to do so.

 

[MysteryChicken]

That will be interesting to see!

If you cross your rooster to a female who's known to not have mottling, it should be pretty easy to figure out. So a female of known ancestry would be best (maybe something common like a New Hampshire.)

I was re-reading some more of that paper, and they said one researcher thought mottling was dominant because on a wild-type background (e+), the chicks showed some mottling with only one copy of the gene--but when they raised the chicks longer, the mottling was not visible in the adult feathers unless the bird had two copies of the gene, so the authors of this paper decided to call it recessive. (I'm thinking that being able to identify the heterozygotes when young would be very handy in a breeding program!)

Okay, sounds good. I can breed both Squeakers, & Bigfoot to the new Hampshire pullet next spring. She'll be a hen by then though.

 

[NatJ]

Okay, sounds good. I can breed both Squeakers, & Bigfoot to the new Hampshire pullet next spring. She'll be a hen by then though.

I'm looking forward to seeing the results!

I remember you said at least one of those roosters is split silver/gold, so when you cross to that hen any patterns should be able to show up in both gold & silver colors. That can help sort out white-from-mottling vs. white-from-silver.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I'm looking forward to seeing the results!

I remember you said at least one of those roosters is split silver/gold, so when you cross to that hen any patterns should be able to show up in both gold & silver colors. That can help sort out white-from-mottling vs. white-from-silver.

Sounds good.

I do have a video of the First Mille Fleur D'uccle X OEGB cross I did for my sister. I don't have the pictures on this phone, but I do on my old phone. He died due to cold weather, so I didn't have a chance to see him grow up the rest of the way, but he clearly shows the mottling gene.