Double fencing for run?

[Ridgerunner]

I remember reading somewhere that HC is good for raccoons, weasels, rats and so on, but less so for canids like foxes, dogs and coyotes.

The risk from larger animals like a large dog or an old boar raccoon is that they can tear hardware cloth if they can get a grip on it. This thread has photos that show it can happen. It doesn't happen often but it can.

Dog Vs. Hardware cloth... | BackYard Chickens - Learn How to Raise Chickens

Another possible point of failure is where your wire mesh fencing is attached to your run frame. If they get a good grip can they tear it loose?

The recommendation I’d seen was a double layer at the bottom (like the bottom three feet) with HC and welded wire fencing. Is that a thing? And if it is a thing, which layer would go on the outside?

The idea is that a heavy gauge welded wire fence would stop a larger animal and the hardware cloth would stop small critters that would go through the larger holes in a welded wire fence. I'm not a huge proponent of this because most critters that can get through the holes in the welded wire can climb above the 3 feet of hardware cloth. I have used it though to stop baby chicks from going through a welded wire fence where a broody hen could not protect them.

So elsewhere someone had said chicks could get stuck between the layers if the welded wire was on the outside. Thoughts?

How big are the holes in the welded wire fence? If the chick can easily get through those holes it would be hard for it to get stuck between the fences. I'd be less concerned about that with a 2" x 4" welded wire fence than a 2x2.

When you attach the hardware cloth to the welded wire, basically "sew" around the edges so a chick cannot get through. Don't leave any gaps big enough. You can attach the two fences with J-Clips, hog rings, short pieces of twisted wire, or thread a length of wire just like you would sewing a thread.

I guess what I’m looking for here is the reasoning behind which fencing goes on the outside.

Probably doesn't matter. I think you could make an argument for either on the outside or inside. The main thing is to tie them together so they act as a unit.

 

[Appalachickens]

Sorry just saw this after I replied. If I'm imagining your plan correctly, this sounds really good and I still think all you need is hardware cloth. If it's a high roof with tall bays on each wall, just add blocking in the middle.

If you use typical fencing staples like u-nails, I don't think anything will be able to get those out of the wood. Something large like a bear might can press against the fence to push them out if your fencing is on the inside of the studs, but even then he'd likely give up before he made any headway.

That is good to hear. We’ll be putting the fencing on the outside of the posts.

 

[Appalachickens]

Thank you for the link to the post about torn-through hardware cloth! And I get what you are saying about climbing critters. My plan was actually the opposite - welded wire fencing the first three feet and HC over the entire thing, including the top. We have raccoons who eat the cat food on our porch and they are clever and sizable, so they are my biggest worry. I’ve got hog clips I plan to use to attach the two types of fencing, and will also screw in boards over where both attach to wood.

 

[jreardon1918]

My run is just HW cloth. That includes a generous apron. I regularly inspect for signs of digging an pulling. I also inspect the seems. I can see where a double layer would strengthen this defense. In 8 years nothing has penetrated the defense. Caught a weasle investigating. And Fox and coyotes stop by to investigate. But so far the girls have been safe while inside HW cloth. A recent investigation.

 

[Appalachickens]

My run is just HW cloth. That includes a generous apron. I regularly inspect for signs of digging an pulling. I also inspect the seems. I can see where a double layer would strengthen this defense. In 8 years nothing has penetrated the defense. Caught a weasle investigating. And Fox and coyotes stop by to investigate. But so far the girls have been safe while inside HW cloth. A recent investigation.

Good to hear. I’ve not seen a weasel here yet, although I’m sure there around. I know for sure we have foxes, coyotes, and bobcats.

 

[MapleLaurelFarms]

That is good to hear. We’ll be putting the fencing on the outside of the posts.

Smart, and that should do it. Ours has been in place about 10 years with no issues at all, and I'm quite certain predators have tried because we have so many critters out here that I now keep our chicken feed in a steel construction box that's set into concrete footers.

We're in NC right over the border from you. Feel free to ride over for a coop tour, or I'm happy to share photos once the snow stops.

 

[Appalachickens]

Smart, and that should do it. Ours has been in place about 10 years with no issues at all, and I'm quite certain predators have tried because we have so many critters out here that I now keep our chicken feed in a steel construction box that's set into concrete footers.

We're in NC right over the border from you. Feel free to ride over for a coop tour, or I'm happy to share photos once the snow stops.

Funny you mention that - I was looking at metal locking deck boxes thinking that would be the best way to store feed if I don’t want it taking up run space. We have had raccoons chew into a heavy plastic cat food bin and also drag an automatic cat feeder across the deck and break it while we were out of town. This time the auto feeder is enclosed in a wooden box and bolted to the deck.

 

[MapleLaurelFarms]

Those pesky coons! They love the hummingbird feeders that I put out in the summer and leave muddy hand prints all over them. They've tried several times to get into our dog's kennel area to snatch her feed, but she's onto them and would make quick work of them if they didn't race back out of there pronto.

I'm sure they love chicken feed also, but I was loosing a deck box along with everything inside about once or twice a year to bears which is why I now have the construction box. I hated to pay that much for something to store feed, but my husband asked me to consider how much I had spent on all of the deck boxes and feed that I had already lost, and that changed my mind!

You mentioned that you haven't noticed any real bear issues, but nothing attracts a bear like a big bag full of feed, so take care! And even though bears can't get into the steel construction box, there's often evidence that they've tried. The concrete footings keep them from flipping and damaging the box. It's crazy how strong they are!

 

[Appalachickens]

Those pesky coons! They love the hummingbird feeders that I put out in the summer and leave muddy hand prints all over them. They've tried several times to get into our dog's kennel area to snatch her feed, but she's onto them and would make quick work of them if they didn't race back out of there pronto.

I'm sure they love chicken feed also, but I was loosing a deck box along with everything inside about once or twice a year to bears which is why I now have the construction box. I hated to pay that much for something to store feed, but my husband asked me to consider how much I had spent on all of the deck boxes and feed that I had already lost, and that changed my mind!

You mentioned that you haven't noticed any real bear issues, but nothing attracts a bear like a big bag full of feed, so take care! And even though bears can't get into the steel construction box, there's often evidence that they've tried. The concrete footings keep them from flipping and damaging the box. It's crazy how strong they are!

If our dogs could get to the coons they would - one is a Walker coonhound and the other part-coonhound. So where do you get a construction box?

 

[MapleLaurelFarms]

If our dogs could get to the coons they would - one is a Walker coonhound and the other part-coonhound. So where do you get a construction box?

Here's the one I have, but other places like Lowes, TS, etc have them also.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-60-in-x-24-in-Universal-Storage-Chest-RB60/317120276