Info wanted on King and/or Shiloh Shepherds

[she-earl]

We have a Bernese Mountain Dog who will be six in April. Our family really love him. Unfortunately, the Bernese breed doesn't have a real long lifespan. I have begun to look at other breeds now when the time comes that we will need another dog. We have sheep, chickens, and dairy cows. I feed the calves and one feeding is while it is still dark. I would like a watchdog to go along with me when I feed. We live at an intersection so I am concerned about having a "true" herding dog that is inclined to chase cars. We don't want a dog that we need to watch every minute to make sure it doesn't bite or attack first. Does anyone have experience with either the King Shepherd or Shiloh Shepherd? My husband and I have owned
German Shepherds but we have both had bad experiences with GSD. According to info that I have found, the King or Shiloh has a better temperment. Is this correct?

 

[AinaWGSD]

I have no personal experience with either king or shiloh shepherds, but I wouldn't count on their temperament being better overall than a GSD. They are giant breed dogs, so they aren't going to have a longer life expectancy than Berners either. None of the larger breeds have an average life expectancy of more than 10-15 years and most of the giant breeds don't have a life expectancy of more than 8-10. And from what I've read, King and shiloh shepherds are also highly prone to hip problems...not something that's easy to deal with in a dog that weighs more than 100lbs.

 

[RiverOtter]

Finding a well bred Shiloh from an honest breeder is a task. There were so much lying and politics going on in the breed club that they forgot to focus on what was important - healthy, stable dogs. I hope to see the breed recover one day.

As it stands, you are far more likely to find a healthy GSD of stable, long lived lines. They are pricey, but a LOT less then a Shiloh pup. Put the work and money you were going to put into finding a good Shiloh breeder and pup into the search and purchase of a good GSD. You may want to look into White Shepherds as well.

 

[Rosto]

If you are looking for a guard type dog you might consider a large breed like a Newfoundland or Irish Wolfhound. Both breeds are lovable and quiet, but not likely to attack anyone without strong provocation. Just a thought. Another good farm dog is an American Bulldog or a coonhound. A great place to begin looking at different breeds is a dog show. Look on the akc and ukc websites to see when they will have local shows. There's nothing like seeing the different breeds in person and talking with folks that own them. A great website to check out breeds is dogbreedinfo.com. I wish you the very best of luck finding your new family member. It's a fun and exciting time looking at all the different types of dogs out there.

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

Quote:
IMO this is incorrect. Shiloh sheps were bred for large size and "old fashioned" GSD type (which is a crock of you-know-what). They took oversized long coated GSDs and out crossed them with dogs such as the Malamute. If you read the breed history by the founder of this breed you will see her talking about how the original GSD were wolf hybrids and spitz mixes. Well every breed has to start some where, but when Max Von Stephanitz developed his vision for an all-round utility dog he started leaving out a lot of genes that didn't fit his criteria -- those included the wolf-dogs and the shepherd dogs that were heavy spitz type. He did this for a reason and that was to form a specific temperament. Not a specific LOOKING dog but to develop the dog's mind and work ethic into something consistent in the litters. The GSD was born.

A true old fashioned GSD looks more like a belgian Malinois, than a hairy, giant GSD. The Shilo's I have been around have been very very mild in temperament or fearful. I don't know if you consider that an improvement over a real GSD or not. I guess it depends on what you are looking for in temperament. I can tell you though, no matter what breed you get, you'll have to do training with ANY dog in order to make them safe around livestock.

As far as lifespan goes-- the shiloh is a giant breed of dog that won't live much past 12 years, if that. So you are back to the drawing board as far as livespan goes.

 

[shilohbreeder]

Good morning.

As a Shiloh breeder and enthusiast, I can certainly help answer some of your questions regarding the breed as much of what I've seen posted so far is a bit off the mark.

Respectfully, you cannot really state a breed's temperament based on a 'few' that one may have seen - not to mention if those were actual Shiloh's or long hair GSDs/mixes/etc. Broad stroke assumptions like that only create misinformation.

First, I am not in any way affiliated with the the 'breed founder' or the negativity involved with that club, but rather a supporter of the ISSDC (hxxp://www.shilohs.org) which is a group solely aimmed at the promotion and the betterment of the breed.

Finding a well bred Shiloh from an honest breeder is a task. There were so much lying and politics going on in the breed club that they forgot to focus on what was important - healthy, stable dogs. I hope to see the breed recover one day.

This statement holds true with any dog of any breed and much should always been done prior to selection of a breeder. Including verification of health testing etc. And it's why anyone interested in a Shiloh (or ANY breed) needs to do a lot of legwork first - including visiting the breeder if at all possible, or seeking references for past buyers.

I don't in any way see the Shiloh as an 'improvement' over the GSD, but rather a breed unto itself with it's own merits and not 'better than' some other breed contrary to whatever someone may claim. The GSD is a wonderful dog and has many great characteristics, however the Shiloh (at least the ones I'm involved with) are breed for a more contemporary roll for today's canine - which is largely that of companion. Which is why any reputable breeder breeds with temperament in mind. Generally the breed demonstrates a soft to medium temperament, making them great for working roles such as therapy dog. I personally have a grump certified in therapy work, and am thrilled that one of our progeny just passed her therapy certification with Therapeutic Paws International last week.

Like ANY breed, a poorly socialized or developed dog can be skiddish, timid, etc. Equally, a well trained and socialized dog can be exceptional. Genetics and proper breeding definitely plays into it, as does ownership. Combination of nature and nurture.

As far as the comment "As far as lifespan goes-- the shiloh is a giant breed of dog that won't live much past 12 years, if that. So you are back to the drawing board as far as livespan goes.". Not sure where the statistics to support this statement come, but we generally see an average lifespan of about 12 years (on average). We currently have quite a few Shiloh's who just celebrated their 13th and 14th birthdays. Diet, exercise, etc all come into place with longevity. I have a number of senior Shilohs in my pack - and my male just came back from his annual bloodwork with 'blood of a two year old' according to the lab. Again - diet & exercise. My pack all eats a raw natural diet.

The breed is prone to many GSD ailments such as DJD, HD, EPI, bloat, etc. However, with responsible selective breeding, the likelihood of occurrence can be reduced.

As far as 'prone' to HD, no more so than any large breed. However again with proper breeding practices the likelihood is significantly reduced - eg I've yet to produce a failing hip and my contracts mandate hip testing by OFA/Penn by 2 years of age - and actually have had an entire litter return with OFA excellent ratings. If you breed good hips to good hips, your chances of producing poor hips are significantly reduced.

Yes, you can get a GSD cheaper (or so I assume). I can't speak for GSD breeders - but I can state for what I sell our pups for, we don't make a buck out of it. A breeder that invests in health testing, conformation shows, working titles, vet bills, diet, etc over the long haul is lucky to break even - but you do it for the love of a breed, and hopefully it's betterment.

Anyhow, how that helps you our She-Earl. I wish you luck, and feel free to pm me and I could provide you some links to resources that can help you along.​

 

[shilohbreeder]

She-Earl,

If you want to go see some in person, today, and meet some GREAT breeders. Head up to Reading PA (40 min lancaster) as there is a NAKC Show at the Reading Expo Centre. There are a tons of Shilohs out there this weekend (I know one just took his first BIS yesterday). Many of those folks are breeders, and you could meet many of their breeding prospects. PM me if you are interested and I could give you some names of folks to ask for and introduce yourself to.

 

[BlackBrookPoultry]

I've actually been considering getting a king shepherd too. We had one on our hobby farm when I was a kid. My parents were, unfortunately, irresponsible dog owners and he ended up dying from heartworm at 10 yrs old. He was a great dog though. Very smart, loyal and protective. He did have to be trained not to kill livestock. But he was a just a puppy (a big one) and just needed to be taught that chasing sheep and chewing on goose necks was not ok. My preference is for a large dog with a straight back, I've actually started to look into the Old Fashion German Shepherd (like the ones from Lanes House of Shepherds in CA).

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

No broad stroke assumptions here. I based my comments on what I know of the breed, having trained them, and have very good family friends who own them. Depending on who you talk to they are either a breed of their own merit, which I am glad to see someone saying they are, or are and improvement on the GSD -- which, by my comments above you know where I stand on that LOL. I worded my comments the way I did as a direct answer to the OP's question.

 

[she-earl]

I noticed in my original post I missed the word "never". My husband and I have not personally owned GSD but have had bad experiences with other peoples GSD. Some were owned by relatives.