My Salmon Faverolles Pullet is Black - Help Me Understand the Genetics

[OhZark Biddies]

Your pullet isn't a mix. I think the lack of selecting for proper coloration for so long....

....The males I had that produced the lightest female offspring were very light in the wingbow - gold instead of mahogany.

Thanks keesmom,
I’ve read a great deal of that monster long salmon Faverolle thread, so I’d seen much of what you covered...but having it all sort of condensed in a refresher is helpful... but the lighter ‘wingbow’ was nes info for me and actually something I asked about recently on that thread, so that info is a big help to me!

I’ve found a lot of past examples of the off colored favs coming out af a couple of hatcheries, as you mentioned it seems not to be a new thing... but not anything in the way of a genetic explanation of what genes might be involved, but maybe ni has asked about that aspect of it in the past?

 

[ChickieChickieMama]

I concur, but I’m hopeful there are some genetic experts that might be able to look at the pullet in question, as well as similar salmon favs with smuttyness and know what genes could be at play, is it melanotic, charcoal, a combo of both, something else, etc?

Your silver laced example is a case of working to improve a pattern, where the genetics involved are known and well understood, so I’m not certain that example is applicable.

I’m doubt breeders are sending off for DNA testing, but maybe, I dunno?

More typically breeders that are working to develop new varieties will do a test cross with a bird in question to genetically known bird in order to then know what they’re working with genetically, by what turns up in the off spring.

The smuttyness in Wheaton hens seems to be a known issue, so again we’re just hoping to learn what is at play genetically here... and maybe even if it could be useful in creating something new.

This exactly. All of this.

EXCEPT, I'm sure that Wyandotte example @AMERAUCANAS4REAL is using is in response to me being silly about the Colourful Silver Laced Wyandotte, so that's my bad, not theirs.

 

[OhZark Biddies]

...I'm sure that Wyandotte example @AMERAUCANAS4REAL is using is in response to me being silly about the Colourful Silver Laced Wyandotte, so that's my bad, not theirs.

Oops I saw that colorful Wyandotte earlier, then had to go do chores, then forgot all bout it by the time I got back to “chicken people” stuff... makes sense now!

 

[ChickieChickieMama]

Splash salmon pair:

That rooster is gorgeous! *swoon*

 

[PouleChick]

Yours is probably fantastic...you've got direct lines there I bet! Do you have a picture to share? (It's possible you've shown me already but I have a terrible memory and I've seen so many pictures of Favs lately I can't remember which is which, haha! But I always love chickie pics!)

I'll have a look in a bit otherwise I'll get one after the weekend as we are off away for the weekend.

I know I was thinking that too (surprise huh? ) ... I was thinking if that nice french lady starts showing us pretty poofy favs and then complains that they're "too french" or something ... well I don't what we're gonna do!

 

[ChickieChickieMama]

A little progress....I think her patterning is Tolbunt. I kept trying to figure out how she could have white mottling and black lacing at the same time....it turns out that's called Tolbunt!

http://www.sedgwickcommon.co.uk/wyandotte-poultry-characteristics/breeding-mottled-chickens/

 

[The Moonshiner]

A little progress....I think her patterning is Tolbunt. I kept trying to figure out how she could have white mottling and black lacing at the same time....it turns out that's called Tolbunt!

http://www.sedgwickcommon.co.uk/wyandotte-poultry-characteristics/breeding-mottled-chickens/

Sorry but she isn't tolburt. She is neither laced nor mottled.

 

[ChickieChickieMama]

And I think I've figured out what might be going on genetically with these ladies.

Salmon Faverolles are Wheaten, possibly with Mahogany (the presence or lack thereof which might account for the variety within this subgroup we are seeing), and they carry sex linked silver. They also carry the mottling gene, which you can see even in the standard girls though because they're so light coloured, it's not easily apparent.

By my girl's patterning, it's clear she carries Dark Brown, Patterning-lacing, and Melanising, otherwise she wouldn't have the black and brown lacing. The mottling combines with this to give the Tolbunt effect. Based on the history of this breed, it's not surprising at all that we see these patterns (I'm actually surprised it's not the standard!) Salmon Faverolles descend from birds such as the Houdan, Brahma, French Rennes, Flemish Cuckoo, Malines, and Dorking. So much Cuckoo, pencilling and mottling!!

Now normally, the father's Silver would override the black, but if his Silver is incomplete (if he only carries one copy), then it's equally likely that his lineage would end up looking like our girls.

Or, so it seems to me.

If this is the case, we should also be seeing some light breasted cockerels popping up...and though I've seen a fair number of pictures of boys with white ticking, I haven't seen any Salmon roosters with whiter chests. Perhaps these boys just would have been culled before anyone talked about them? Especially since most of these chickens are coming out of hatcheries, and I presume they don't sell a lot of roosters that get to grow up.

Thoughts?

 

[The Moonshiner]

They're silver wheaton with mahogany.
No mottling.
And yours doesn't have mottling, dark brown or lacing.
Also silver has no effects on black.

 

[ChickieChickieMama]

Sorry but she isn't tolburt. She is neither laced nor mottled.

Really? From my understanding, laced is a border colour to the feather and mottling is a white tip on the feather. Tolbunt is both together.

This is a close up of my girl's feathers:

Keep in mind, she's only 13 weeks old she isn't fully matured yet, but those two images look remarkably alike to my eyes, no? What am I missing?