prayer warriors (following Jesus Christ, everyone welcome)

[Flock Master64]

Until I am convinced otherwise, I agree. There are verses that speak about seeing angels but when the verse says God then I agree. I was looking for a verse and can't find it now, it is about Moses wanting to look at God, then God allowed Moses to see His back.

cool

 

[ocap]

Quote:
sure is interesting to think about Jesus existing before His birth, boggles my mind, something I just accept.

 

[PeepersMama]

sure is interesting to think about Jesus existing before His birth, boggles my mind, something I just accept.

Oh come on brain, put this into words... that's one of those things that makes sense to me, but I can't explain, ya know? Drives me nuts...

Jesus always exsisted, but when he was "born" that was just Him coming to earth as a man. If he just appeared on earth, then he would have been noticeably above men, instead of on he same level as we are.

 

[ocap]

Quote:
Here is one of the "proof" verses, Jesus claimed to be God and existing before His birth, the men that picked up stones knew He was claiming to be God and that is punishable by death. God told Moses to tell the Jews "I am" sent you.

John 8 NASB
57 So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

 

[PeepersMama]

Here is one of the "proof" verses, Jesus claimed to be God and existing before His birth, the men that picked up stones knew He was claiming to be God and that is punishable by death. God told Moses to tell the Jews "I am" sent you.

John 8 NASB
57 So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

Huh, that's really cool!

 

[Flock Master64]

Here is one of the "proof" verses, Jesus claimed to be God and existing before His birth, the men that picked up stones knew He was claiming to be God and that is punishable by death. God told Moses to tell the Jews "I am" sent you.

John 8 NASB
57 So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

wow

 

[shortgrass]

Here is one of the "proof" verses, Jesus claimed to be God and existing before His birth, the men that picked up stones knew He was claiming to be God and that is punishable by death. God told Moses to tell the Jews "I am" sent you.

John 8 NASB
[SUP]57 [/SUP]So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” [SUP]58 [/SUP]Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” [SUP]59 [/SUP]Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.

That explains why he was able to sneak off all the time without anyone seeming to notice where he went... Still mind boggling, though... Like the "alpha and the omega, first and last, what is now has been since the beginning, first Adam to the last Adam, the Word was, is, and will be" etc etc...


So, in essence, is that an example of the Trinity in a real life scenario? Jacob wrestling with a man, who appeared as an angel, who was actually God, in the flesh...?

 

[ocap]

Quote: here are the wrestling verses:

Genesis 32 NASB
24 Then Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak. 25 When he saw that he had not prevailed against him, he touched the socket of his thigh; so the socket of Jacob’s thigh was dislocated while he wrestled with him. 26 Then he said, “Let me go, for the dawn is breaking.” But he said, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.” 27 So he said to him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Jacob.” 28 He said, “Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed.” 29 Then Jacob asked him and said, “Please tell me your name.” But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?” And he blessed him there. 30 So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, “I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved.”



I think Jacob wrestled with Jesus because of the word God, NASB does not use the word angel.

so............ yes Trinity is in this example

Everyone must decide who Jesus is and who He claimed to be, can't get to heaven without Him :

John 14 NASB
6 Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."

 

[shortgrass]

here is the scripture for this morning's study, is this a forth James?

Mark 15 NASB
[SUP]40 [/SUP]There were also some women looking on from a distance, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the Less and Joses, and Salome.

Ok...lol I had such a brain spasm with this that I resorted to wiki



Alphaeus is a man mentioned in the New Testament as the father of two of the Twelve Apostles, namely:

Saint Matthew[1]
James, son of Alphaeus[2][3]
There were two men named Alphaeus. One of them was the father of the apostle James and other father of Matthew (Levi)[4] Though both Matthew and James are described as being the "son of Alphaeus" there is no Biblical account of the two being called brothers, even in the same context where John and James or Peter and Andrew are described as being brothers.

Alphaeus is traditionally identified with Clopas, based on the identification from parallel Gospel accounts of Mary, the mother of James the third woman with Mary Magdalene and Salome wife of Zebedee beside the cross in Matthew with Mary, the wife of Clopas, the third woman in John's account.

According to the surviving fragments of the work Exposition of the Sayings of the Lord of the Apostolic Father Papias of Hierapolis, who lived c. 70–163 AD, Cleophas and Alphaeus are the same person: "Mary the wife of Cleophas or Alphaeus, who was the mother of James the bishop and apostle, and of Simon and Thaddeus, and of one Joseph"[5] For the Anglican theologian J.B. Lightfoot this fragment quoted above would be spurious.[6][7]


The Catholic Encyclopedia suggests that etymologically, the names Clopas and Alphaeus are different, but that they could still be the same person. Other sources propose that Alphaeus, Clophas and Cleophas are variant attempts to render the Aramaic H in Aramaic Hilfai into Greek as aspirated, or K.




Argh, ok so that narrows down the extra Mary...

Same Mary, but evidently there might be 3 Marys with sons named James? So, I'm still back on square one. Except I'm fairly sure that this verse isn't about the two apostles, since they were the sons of Zebedee. This might be the second apostle named James?

Why couldn't they have used a less popular name?!?!

 

[shortgrass]

Ok, question....when someone lost a son back then, did they stop saying "mother of so and so"??? Like, for instance, if Mary, the mother of Jesus, was also the mother of James and others, that after Jesus death, she would have then been known as " Mary, mother of James" and so forth?... Did they omit the deceased after they died?


Because Mark 6:3

Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph,[a] Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.


And Matthew 13:55


55 “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? 56 Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”




Ok, so the verse we're looking at must be Mary, mother of Jesus, James, Joses (Joseph), Salome, or/and Simon, and Judas?.....Mark 15:40 is about James the less, Jesus brother...