Scratch & Peck Now Contains Diatomaceous Earth In Their Feeds

[Batzilla]

I don’t know if I can reassure you. But I use food grade DE for 8 or 9 years now. Never had chickens with breathing problems bc of DE. I have a 9 and a 10 yo chicken who didn’t get sick their entire life.

That’s great to hear that your chookies are fine with it

 

[FeatherAndBloom]

Yay! Glad to know I wasn’t going crazy and great to know it isn’t an added ingredient. Thank you for posting!

I am really happy to help and bonus- reassured myself too Happy Spring!

 

[FeatherAndBloom]

Just for info, silica is bad juju when inhaled regularly. This is a big reason why I don’t think DE is good around chickens. Why You Don’t Want to Be Inhaling Silica

I do understand it is an anti-caking agent and generally considered safe for food use, but I don’t think the FDA is thinking humans are sticking their faces in dusty foods to eat the way chickens do

Silica is also thought to damage the pulmonary macrophages, and macrophages are the only way chickens have to get rid of stuff they inhale into their air sacs because they don’t have cilia like mammals do.

It’s just not worth the risk to me, but everyone has to make their own decisions on what they think is best for them and their critters.

I do just need to point out one key fact here which is that DE is amorphous silica and not the crystalline silica that is known definitively to cause silicosis thats talked about in the wiki link. That being said there are studies like THIS that indicate it causes pulmonary cell death in mice and could lead to disease. I will be proceeding with lots of caution!

 

[nuthatched]

At the 2% contained in feed, there is no (read 0) risk of any complications at all.
If your birds are exposed to dirt (i.e dust baths, scratching, pecking, being a chicken), they're already exposed to much higher levels of not only a few kinds of silica (3%-45% region depending), but other "harmful" substances.

Also, at 2%, even if your birds never touch dirt [which would be neglectful and detrimental for the health and well-being of the bird], their own dander poses more of a threat than 2% DE in feed.

I am very likely, the most anti-DE person here. I'm pretty well read on it. and from my reading I will make the statement that:
2% in food, is not going to cause any issues, period. There's more risk in plain, ol', backyard DIRT and their own dander.
It won't control parasites.
It doesn't cure disease.

But it does keep feed from clumping, which can set off other feed issues.
If you have issues with it in feed, you can serve the feed wet, which nullifies any airborne dust.

But this not remotely a thing that anyone should be concerned about.
As is everything else, the poison is in the dose.

 

[Batzilla]

At the 2% contained in feed, there is no (read 0) risk of any complications at all.
If your birds are exposed to dirt (i.e dust baths, scratching, pecking, being a chicken), they're already exposed to much higher levels of not only a few kinds of silica (3%-45% region depending), but other "harmful" substances.

Also, at 2%, even if your birds never touch dirt [which would be neglectful and detrimental for the health and well-being of the bird], their own dander poses more of a threat than 2% DE in feed.

I am very likely, the most anti-DE person here. I'm pretty well read on it. and from my reading I will make the statement that:
2% in food, is not going to cause any issues, period. There's more risk in plain, ol', backyard DIRT and their own dander.
It won't control parasites.
It doesn't cure disease.

But it does keep feed from clumping, which can set off other feed issues.
If you have issues with it in feed, you can serve the feed wet, which nullifies any airborne dust.

But this not remotely a thing that anyone should be concerned about.
As is everything else, the poison is in the dose.

We all gotta have our neuroses! I think part of my thing with DE is it seems to be EVERYWHERE in chicken keeping and I just don’t want to be adding it to my coop or run. It’s in dust baths, it’s promoted to be added to food for parasite control, it’s here, it’s there, here’s some DE for you and here’s some DE for you, and you and you! And so many people just take it as gospel that it’s the cure-all for everything bad that affects chickens. Makes me crazy. I realize it’s a small amount, but JFC does it have to be in EVERYTHING chicken?

Thanks for posting, though, I appreciate the “calm down toots” post

 

[FeatherAndBloom]

We all gotta have our neuroses! I think part of my thing with DE is it seems to be EVERYWHERE in chicken keeping and I just don’t want to be adding it to my coop or run. It’s in dust baths, it’s promoted to be added to food for parasite control, it’s here, it’s there, here’s some DE for you and here’s some DE for you, and you and you! And so many people just take it as gospel that it’s the cure-all for everything bad that affects chickens. Makes me crazy. I realize it’s a small amount, but JFC does it have to be in EVERYTHING chicken?

Thanks for posting, though, I appreciate the “calm down toots” post

It really is! I have really appreciated the excellent manners, humor and research that everyone has brought to this thread. Bravo! As my first real foray into BYC (and after years of no social media) I have to say I am so happy to be here

 

[Samouce]

My chicks love the S&P mash. They would not touch the crumbles. Attached is the ingredients list for the grower mash - I don't see DE listed.

 

[FeatherAndBloom]

My chicks love the S&P mash. They would not touch the crumbles. Attached is the ingredients list for the grower mash - I don't see DE listed.

Hey! In case you’re curious: on page 3 of this thread we resolved the question with an email to customer service (I posted screen shots!). End result was that because DE is used in small amounts as pest control during their bulk storage of organic grain there was confusion for a while and it ended up on the ingredients list. It is NOT an added ingredient in the food. Their certifier has assured them they don’t need to list it and they have since removed it from the ingredients list to reduce confusion. It may be in the feed bag in negligible amounts, but absolutely nothing of concern, so much that it doesn’t need to be disclosed! My girls love the food toooo!!!

 

[Batzilla]

Hey! In case you’re curious: on page 3 of this thread we resolved the question with an email to customer service (I posted screen shots!). End result was that because DE is used in small amounts as pest control during their bulk storage of organic grain there was confusion for a while and it ended up on the ingredients list. It is NOT an added ingredient in the food. Their certifier has assured them they don’t need to list it and they have since removed it from the ingredients list to reduce confusion. It may be in the feed bag in negligible amounts, but absolutely nothing of concern, so much that it doesn’t need to be disclosed! My girls love the food toooo!!!

Unfortunately there is no way for me to update the original post. i don’t want to delete it as I think this thread contains great info. I was thrilled when FeatherAndBloom reached out to them, I normally would have but I think I was having a Demenopause moment and it did not occur to me. I am so grateful that it isn’t an added ingredient. I do understand that it probably will not be an issue in feed, but I just really don’t want it around my birds if I can avoid it and I know others feel the same way. My chickens love the layer mash and it makes a great fermented feed as well. I love that we can have nice convos on this forum without people losing their minds. I know that on some FB groups it is not nice and I use the Block feature there quite frequently, but I think we have a bunch of very good eggs here on BYC and I am really grateful for the people and the knowledge here.

 

[Debbie292d]

Unfortunately there is no way for me to update the original post. i don’t want to delete it as I think this thread contains great info. I was thrilled when FeatherAndBloom reached out to them, I normally would have but I think I was having a Demenopause moment and it did not occur to me. I am so grateful that it isn’t an added ingredient. I do understand that it probably will not be an issue in feed, but I just really don’t want it around my birds if I can avoid it and I know others feel the same way. My chickens love the layer mash and it makes a great fermented feed as well. I love that we can have nice convos on this forum without people losing their minds. I know that on some FB groups it is not nice and I use the Block feature there quite frequently, but I think we have a bunch of very good eggs here on BYC and I am really grateful for the people and the knowledge here.

I'm 64 years old and learned in all of my years of chicken keeping that we do things others don't agree with, and I see others doing things I don't agree with. That's one thing about BYC is people are more respectful about others' opinions, and some are actually open to changing their ways. That's how we learn and grow. Some may never change what they do, and that's fine too.

I'm not changing my ways about using DE for the parrot cages, ants around the house, and coops for mite prevention, nor was I ever convinced by those who constantly reply, "Your chickens will be fine," on Facebook, when in fact, their chickens were not fine, and froze. We heat our coops to 40°F, and no, they don't die if the power goes out.

You've gotten a lot of great help and information here, so you make the decision and go with what you feel is best for you and your chickens. They're your chickens, not ours. I wish you the best!