Started Reading "Pastured Poultry Profit$" - Joel Salatin

[Buster52]

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And I to post my opinions about your opinions. My opinion is that your questions could be taken as challenges, which is how he apparently took them by your own earlier descriptions.

You're right. I've never been to Polyface farm. I'm just saying I'm much more inclined to trust the views of Grady who spent a year with the man than those of someone who took a brief tour. Grady implements his practices, so I have been able to see them regularly, close up. They are quite impressive.

And BTW, I don't know a lot about layers, but a nest for every 4 birds seems to be the accepted ratio, so his Raken system was not at all out of bounds in that regard. Also, on the mobile houses, the birds spend a lot of their time living outside in the fresh air, or under the house. They spend most of their inside time during the night, and most of that sleeping. It isn't like they are locked in there 24/7.

I will confess to my bias. Part of it probably comes from Grady, who knows him, part of it from implementing parts of his system as it fits my needs, part of it from the incredible impact he has had in promoting sustainable agriculture. Guilty as charged.

However, perhaps you have a bias now, as well, based at least in part on his apparent gruff treatment of you on your tour.

Does the guy have feet of clay? Of course he does. I don't agree with everything he does and have said so repeatedly here and elsewhere. I share Nature's Harmony's concern about the choice for Cornish Cross for his broilers (although he is apparently experimenting with Freedom Rangers), and my politics and religious beliefs are about 180 degrees from him. I'll probably find other things he does that I disagree with or question. That's life.

But none of that, and nothing you can say, can negate what he has accomplished, either as a farmer or as an advocate for the right kind of farming.

 

[Beekissed]

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To me, this post seems a knee-jerk reaction to some sensitivity that I have offended. I'm sorry if something I said offended you as it wasn't meant to do so. Why you would be so offended over a simple review of a farm tour is beyond me. I realize that Salatin has pioneered some great ideas...no one is disputing that, least of all me. I've implemented a few of his ideas myself and have read all of his books several times. I was impressed with his own idealism until I saw the reality of his farm and noted that it didn't quite fit his descriptions in his books.

No, I'm not a picky person nor am I a stickler about filth...but this is the same man that complains loudly about the very same conditions found in common commercial paradigms. It's just one of those things about glass houses...if you are going to complain about other farming practices, at least sweep off your own back porch, so to speak.

 

[Mac in Wisco]

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You're right, I really can't see any faults in your photos. Those birds have ample room, plenty of natural sunlight, decent bedding, and a feeder full of feed. In my opinion it looks like a very nice setup. If you say that's just the tip of the iceberg, I 'd have to say that he probably does a pretty decent job on the rest of the farm too. Does it compare to a cute little coop with a dozen birds in somebody's backyard? Of course not. Does it match the idyllic, pastoral farm setting that many folks picture in their minds? Probably not.

60 nests for 200 birds is a problem? You've got to be kidding. We have 264 nest boxes for 2500 hens. Every day I get around 2400 eggs in the nest boxes, and twelve on the floor... twelve birds never figured it out and probably never will. They lay in the same spots everyday and I know where to look for them. Floor eggs are not indicative of a shortage of nest boxes, but of birds that weren't "trained" nor encouraged to lay in the nest boxes. When our birds first start laying I walk the barn every hour for the first couple of weeks, picking up any floor eggs to discourage others from laying on the floor. Some producers may not have the time or labor to get the same results that I do though and a certain percentage of floor eggs are generally expected.

 

[Blackbird]

"I have no problem with profit, but not if it's at the expense of the very ideals he, himself, touts and also if they seem so similar to the commercial operations"

This is what I have noticed - there is quite a bit of contradiction in his writings and presentation.

For someone to be who he claims to be.. Wouldn't it be better to advocate his ways of farming without the religious and political overtones of EIWTDII? The main point and goal that he is pushing has no religious denomination and political stance - the process of raising your own food knows none of this. Over the hype I had originally heard about him, I simply expected someone who would be more accommodating and less marginal for an overall good. So this was all very surprising.

Surely someone of his profession would be used to a challenge - it appears that he certainly enjoys one.. If he didn't I'm not sure he would be doing what he is. Why shrug off a question because it might have been 'challenging'? A good advocate would have welcomed that and answered with thorough honesty and explanation. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense from that direction. Someone who says 'Do not buy food from this (fill in the blank) because they are based on lies and bad practices', better be pretty top notch themselves - and I think that is what so many expected from him.. But again, Polyface Farms.

That said, he has some great ideas and he has done a lot of good with his work and been an improvement and asset - I just hope he continues to stick with the agriculture and livestock aspects. If not, then that's alright, too. What he believes in does not honestly affect me (yet). He could collect a harem and sell off his farm and live in a mansion if he wanted, doesn't change a thing for me.

What we must remember is that MANY aspects of his farming practices have been around for generations - This is really nothing new... perhaps not the mainstream in today's country, but nevertheless they are practices that have sustained through the ages. He is simply someone marketing and advocating them. We must also remember that humans don't always make the best role models.

Honestly.. I DO hope he converts to a more sustainable type of bird for his meat needs - in his situation it just makes more sense. I simply refuse to buy broilers anymore because I can't hatch them, but I am also not a large scale producer.

 

[Beekissed]

Whatever, guys!

Worship at the feet of Joel all you want. I, for one, have seen the little man behind the curtain and am no longer fully impressed.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

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I like your attitude.... you saw what you saw..... and it is what it is. If we all agreed it would be no fun.

I always question things too.

 

[Cindiloohoo]

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I like your attitude.... you saw what you saw..... and it is what it is. If we all agreed it would be no fun.

I always question things too.

Ditto.

Sounds/looks to me as if Mr. Salatin has some great ideas, but has trouble implementing them himself on his own farm. I don't find that too offensive, sometimes lifes crazy scheduling just kicks your butt and leaves you lying in a mudhole. I know I have had issues on my little farm, and things can get out of hand quickly, then I spend weeks playing catch up to get the work done that should have been done last week...maybe even last month and I'm not busy with public speaking! So...maybe he just had a bad week Beekissed, bad month maybe, whatever. With a farm that size, I'd likely at some point fall apart and have a bad year

God forbid I have to hire someone else to help out...nobody cares about your livestock the way you do! Just go on vacation for a week with a pet sitter and no telling what disaster you may come back to or how long it'll take to fix it!

I do very much see what you're saying though, and it COULD appear to some that he does not practice what he preaches. But, I simply do not know. Those pics are nothing like I'd have pictured his setups or animals for sure, but I can't pass judgement on those pictures or discriptions alone. Had I been there and seen more of the same, I can't say it would not have been discouraging.

 

[Beekissed]

Thanks, Brunty! I appreciate that. My grandparents owned a farm, I was raised on a homestead and we had livestock there also, I have sibs that own and operate farms and I have always lived in rural, farming country. I guess you could say that I am no stranger to farming and farming practices.

Farming as a way of life is very close to my roots and my heart...I don't go to a farm to find things that are bad, I went to this farm, in particular, to see firsthand what a wonderful setup he had. I had been looking forward to it for years! I was one of his most staunch fans and have been telling people about him for years.

If someone that devoted finds things that don't set well in the mind, one has to question if they are indeed valid.

 

[Mac in Wisco]

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I'm not sure what people expect. How would you have pictured it Cindi?

Without giving her any background info, I showed the photos to my wife and asked her opinion. She thought it was a rather nice setup. She was particularly impressed by the transparent hoop house that let in all of the natural daylight.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

Ya, but there shouldn't be dirty eggs everywhere on the ground and there shouldn't be a broody hen setting on a clutch in a coop that is designated for eating eggs. There a lot of interns at Polyface and who's to say that they just don't grab those eggs after the hen has sat on them for a few days. Maybe none of them are fertile but I'm sure they would not be the best thing to crack open either.