Oriental Gamefowl Thread!

[fowlsessed]

Like your spangled, not as 'bad' (in my eyes) as some I see. might like to eventually breed some that look like that.

 

[Jen C]

Beautiful KO! I love your spangled stag.

 

[SD_Paulo]

Thanks for the complements.

This group of Ko (Spangled and Wheatens) are out of Mrs Chung's line of Ko. Hands down she has the best Ko, and Shamo, in the country. The only other Ko I have seen that may come close, as far as Traditional Japanese or UK type, are Brantelys old line of Ko.

BTW~ my avatar image is of a Brantley cock.

 

[aviangems]

Hands down

Are you kidding?

 

[aviangems]

Brantelys

AGAIN - are you kidding?

The last time there were any Brantly birds was at LEAST 5 years ago ( the last time he was in possession of / breeding these birds).

By now those birds have been selected / modified by the individuals working with stock from those birds. 5 years of selection can produce alot of change.

I have pure "Brantly" birds. There might be 2-5 others who can say the same, as most people crossed them with birds from a later German importation or something else.

 

[aviangems]

Traditional Japanese or UK type

There is NO traditional Japanese type - God forbid any mention of a UK type.

There are a multitude of difference / "types" in Japan. There are discussed Ko Shamos of varying types ( many), Ko Gunkeis of a more Yamato Gunkei type, Tosa Chibis of a SMALL yamato Gunkei type, and Chibi Shamos and possibly more. ALL of these are shown / considered one breed - KO SHAMO.

All pure KOs originated in Japan and spread to other parts of the world. There they were selected / changed and many were even crossed. All you have to do is lok at some of the "German" and "UK" birds and you can see the influence of Modern Games and who knows what else.

 

[SD_Paulo]

Are you kidding?

Nope! Not kidding friend....

"Hands Down", friend, the best Ko in the US today on a variety of levels! I'm sure its a matter of conjecture but I would like to see better? Then again, since you seem to be "one" of the few that say you hold Brantley's old line, those may come close. BTW- Carl GAVE a lady in Southern California his Ko brood fowl when he chose to get out of Ko. - per information found on the Ganoi webiste. Interesting little tidbit of information wouldnt you say??

Yes, I have a few broodfowl, and offspring, from Mrs. Chungs birds but I also have Will's line of Ko and (had) a Trio of Brantleys Ko bred straight (so maybe its closer to 3-6 folks, as I have gifted a few to close friends too) Any idea why you think those Brantleys were crossed?

Yes, their are a few variations in the Ko in Japan. But mainly its in height, facial tissue, and a few other nuances. But the Japanese have their set standards that they adhere to and that ALL the Ko need to meet, including but limited to,PEARL EYES, TIGHT FEATHERING, STATION, and even FEATHER COLOR. So, you see, there is actually a Japanese standard. Perhaps, not in the tradition of the US show ring but its a standard that the Japanese use. If you need the standard for Japan or UK, as provided by Julia Keeling, let me know? Be more than happy to forward it to you.

Regarding the Ko in the UK, there are many, many good birds out of the UK. Yes, it is well documented that many of the old German Ko have been crossed with MG and Cornish. Apparently out of necessity as the vitality of those original birds was beginning to suffer at that time. BUT, a couple breeders from Wales and Germany, more recently, imported Ko from Japan and those have been maintained straight and breed well.

Lastly, if you want those Brantley birds you can have them. Just pay for shipping I am down to a pair, as I culled a hen that layed irregular eggs.

 

[gallorojo]

This is an interesting discussion to be sure. I am not that well versed on the US Ko lines , but I am learning. As Paulo knows mine are from Will's stock. I really like mine, but in many ways they seem more like Chibi's or small Yamato. They do not have the extreme upright tip-toe posture of the UK birds. They are however very heavy muscular birds with large heads and heavy beaks, fleshy faces, etc. Where is the line between Ko of this type and Chibi's etc? Thoughts and comments appreciated here, Paulo seems to know his stuff with the Ko's, other opinions welcome as well.

 

[fowlman01]

For those interested in the Ko Shamo's. There is an initiative to have them recognized by the ABA/APA. Jeff Halbach the ABA prez has judged some and is favorable to them even with the requirement that they have split wings. The color would be Wheaten.

Walt

 

[aviangems]

Paolo and Gallorojo,

To the best of my knowledge the birds from Carl Brantly went to Suzanne. They were wheatens and produced strictly wheatens. Therefore that spangle you call a "Brantly" bird can't possibly be.

Do you know how the spangle / mottled color comes into the mix? It comes from a man in GA. I do not know where he got them from.

Will's line? Will's birds originally came from Ronnie Proffitt and then he added buff birds from GA and who knows what else. Ronnie's birds that Will got were pure from the original Brantly birds that Suzanne obtained. The GA birds had some English imports that came into SC and who knows what else.

I have the standard. Again I am one of the few in this country who has the original book published by Shinichi Zenimoto and Geert Coppens ( the son of the man who originally imported the KOs into Belgium - Willy Coppens ). I ordered 2 and gave one to Ronnie Profitt as a gift. It is written in Japanese, German and English.

Paolo, thank you for the offer on those birds. I appreciate it but I am working with my birds that are a combination of several lines here in the states. I keep all the lines pure within themselves and seperately cross them to try to get a more "ideal" (to me) bird in a combination line.

I have plenty to keep me busy.

I just don't want people to get the wrong idea. I want things to be stated as they are. Do not take this personally. It is not an attack. It is simply a clarification.

That spangled male you pictured is SUPER - no matter what line you say he is from. He is good and that is all that matters. I assure you he has a lot of the original Belgian line with the GA spangles and some Stumme german blood.

Nope! Not kidding friend....

"Hands Down", friend, the best Ko in the US today on a variety of levels! I'm sure its a matter of conjecture but I would like to see better? Then again, since you seem to be "one" of the few that say you hold Brantley's old line, those may come close. BTW- Carl GAVE a lady in Southern California his Ko brood fowl when he chose to get out of Ko. - per information found on the Ganoi webiste. Interesting little tidbit of information wouldnt you say??

Yes, I have a few broodfowl, and offspring, from Mrs. Chungs birds but I also have Will's line of Ko and (had) a Trio of Brantleys Ko bred straight (so maybe its closer to 3-6 folks, as I have gifted a few to close friends too) Any idea why you think those Brantleys were crossed?

Yes, their are a few variations in the Ko in Japan. But mainly its in height, facial tissue, and a few other nuances. But the Japanese have their set standards that they adhere to and that ALL the Ko need to meet, including but limited to,PEARL EYES, TIGHT FEATHERING, STATION, and even FEATHER COLOR. So, you see, there is actually a Japanese standard. Perhaps, not in the tradition of the US show ring but its a standard that the Japanese use. If you need the standard for Japan or UK, as provided by Julia Keeling, let me know? Be more than happy to forward it to you.

Regarding the Ko in the UK, there are many, many good birds out of the UK. Yes, it is well documented that many of the old German Ko have been crossed with MG and Cornish. Apparently out of necessity as the vitality of those original birds was beginning to suffer at that time. BUT, a couple breeders from Wales and Germany, more recently, imported Ko from Japan and those have been maintained straight and breed well.

Lastly, if you want those Brantley birds you can have them. Just pay for shipping I am down to a pair, as I culled a hen that layed irregular eggs.

Paolo