The Honey Factory

[nao57]

I forget where I saw this but DNA was done on some bees in Canada I believe . Found 2 percent African DNA . Theory was southern sourced bees brought it up there . So yes it has trickled into the gene pool . No one noticed if they are not mean . Even the best bloodlines are mutts . Mutts are good . Too bad the Caucasian bees are hard to find in the USA . They were the gentlest they say . Some of the first Russian imports were said to be mean . They claim they selected away from that trait .

I'd seen some videos of Youtube videos where a guy shows off a really, really mean riled up Russian hive.

But I've also seen some videos where people show how they are manageable and how much they love their Russian bees, and what great honey producers they are.

I find myself pretty curious to try them actually.

I've heard that in Europe people can get Caucasian bees pretty easy and they have some pure Carniolan strains too...just there's that problem with the whole rules against importing them.

There was a lady dr. researcher on bees that was doing a pure Carni strain project in the US also but I forgot her name.

Its interesting to think about all of this.

 

[jerryse]

I read where PR has Africanized bees that have evolved into manageable gentleness .

 

[nao57]

Interesting read..

https://beekeepinglikeagirl.com/how-to-tell-if-your-bees-are-africanized/

I should have read it yesterday or last week when they would not let me mow near them..

I guess even if we don’t have Africanized bees, I suppose we could have half breeds up here this time of year. A guy a quarter mile from me has bees. Maybe he has bad bees, I know he had queen problems and ordered two queens from California.

People say that you can change a lot with a new queen.

Its worth a try.

It wouldn't be impossible for Africanized bees to be what you have. And I keep thinking this the more I think about it. Non-Africanized bees should NOT chase you very far. But supposedly people who do videos on Africanized bees say they will literally chase you for over a mile.

Amazing right?

There's a really fun Killer Bee channel on Youtube with this old guy that does some fun killer bee videos.

 

[jerryse]

Yes the artificial inseminated bees are pricey .

 

[nao57]

Interesting, I had no idea you could find a queen by moving frames.

I did know he screwed up leaving the cork in the queen cage.

If my mean hive lives to spring, I might have to find the queen and feed her to Tweety. Then put a new one in.

If you requeen before spring you'd have more experience with an overwintered queen though... some people pay extra for that.

 

[shawluvsbirds]

People say that you can change a lot with a new queen.

Its worth a try.

It wouldn't be impossible for Africanized bees to be what you have. And I keep thinking this the more I think about it. Non-Africanized bees should NOT chase you very far. But supposedly people who do videos on Africanized bees say they will literally chase you for over a mile.

Amazing right?

There's a really fun Killer Bee channel on Youtube with this old guy that does some fun killer bee videos.

Killer bees and fun do not belong in the same sentance!

 

[nao57]

Here’s some ramblings of the subject of breed traits... sorry it’s so long

I don’t put a great deal of stock in breed descriptions for bees for a few reasons... but basically it’s often a lot like cattle breed descriptions...

If we go read the Belted Galloway description on that breed association website and then go talk to someone who has raised them... we’ll likely find most of them don’t live up to very much of the description, other than appearance... and this can be the case for bees too...

I have mutt bees that most often tend toward Italian in looks and behavior, but they are far from pure, and they vary from what you’d read Italians should be... particularly in habit... but I often just say they are Italians... unless they are dark then I often just say they are carniolans...but they’re really just a mix of any of the 2 or 3 (or maybe 4?) common breeds...

there is a beek a couple miles from me that has had buckfast bees in the past, and we have quite a few wild/feral hives around also, so who knows?

and sometimes they end up mixed bred...the queen I had here at the house last year and this spring produced both dark and light colored bees...

but even the queens sourced from commercial bee breeders are very often of a type, but not actually pure...

No one talks about this, but I think a lot of the replacement queens and package bees available in spring in the US are coming off west coast almonds where they build up and then get made into packages and such and sold across the rest of the country, but there is very little to no selective breeding going on

I have a hunch that a lot of the big package and replacement producers that offer Italian or carniolan... just call the light ones Italians and the dark ones carniolans

For the most part, the only guaranteed pure bred bees are artificially inseminated and cost big, big money...

so it’s often a good idea to take the breed description as general information and recognize that even if you buy a certain breed queen, she might not match the breed qualities exactly...

And of course that old saying that ‘all bee keeping is local’ always comes into play, and I remind myself that local often means ‘local to the particular hive’...

I’ve taken queen cells from the same hive and raised queens that were very different in terms of their hive’s productivity and behavior...

And some queens/hives are just simply weak producers of honey even though they are healthy hives... and even if they look to be the great honey producing Italians that the breed description describes they have other traits not related to appearance that give a different result

but like most things, it’s a trade off when it comes to traits... I had this image on my phone in my bee folder, that I think is a good summation of some of the trade offs we encounter in bees...

Not sure it means much to us hobby beeks that aren’t doing any serious trait fixing work, but I think the traits and trade offs are an interesting thing to think about

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So about your comment that you think a lot of the package and replacement bees are coming from CA...

Yes that's true. From Oliveiras specifically. And many people even say they are carrying and selling through Oliveiras like a middleman. I keep hearing this Oliveiras name everywhere regarding west coast bees actually. But I haven't used them myself, so I can't vouch for them either way.

But not everyone does this.

I think this brings mixed blessings though, because I'm not so sure the commercial migration trend for moving hives is good for them. And it makes something unsustainable look sustainable.

 

[nao57]

I don't think there are any wild honeybees up here in the Hills. We had so much clover here this year, as always; hardly any pollinators of any kind. Bumblebees but not many, and assorted other bee-like buzzers.

I guess I'm going to order MN Hygenics (I think is what they're called). A local guy here orders those & (if I remember right) Italians. I figure our climate is a bit cold for Russian bees , but not cold for MN bees—at least not Ralphie's part of MN. Besides, anything I've found to get Ruskies via mail-order is too long a trip for the seller to guarantee I'll receive living bees.

So I'm curious...this was yesterday posted...

Does this mean you guys have and can order nucs and hives etc when NOT in spring?

If I could order bees now and get them before Spring I'd sort of bee interested in experiementing with that, as it gives the queen overwintering experience. (In my state people sometimes pay extra for a nuc that's already got overwintered experience.)

Is it possible to order nucs or stuff before Spring then, from somewhere to get them now?

In my state, I never see anything sold after end of May. The window seems to be April and May and then you never see anything up for grabs anymore.

That makes it difficult if you miss the window.

Any advise on this?

 

[R2elk]

Is it possible to order nucs or stuff before Spring then, from somewhere to get them now?

No.

 

[jerryse]

So I have watched a lot of videos about weak hives . I now think my weak July hive may have went through the dearth without enough bees and resources . So perhaps they will be strong enough to survive the winter after the boost of 2 frames of capped brood and resources I gave them .