Skyeknight
Songster
Exactly! So the feed that we buy in the store and feed our chickens with should not be a cause for PFAS in eggs.
BDutch's bantam flock & natural breeding projects #5 🪺 🪺 and #6
do your chickens eat earthworms? Most of mine turn their beaks up at them.
thanks for the link. But I have to say I find papers written in this style really hard work; there are almost more abbreviations than words, and the units are spectacularly minute. There are also a lot more unknowns than I am comfortable with. I think they should have done more research with better data sets before going public with hypotheses. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.
Skyeknight
Songster
Obviously can't speak for BDutch, but for me over the past 15 years my chickens always loved to eat them when I gave any. I do wonder how many earthworms a chicken would scratch up themselves, since they tend to be decently deep in the ground.
- Thread starter
- #975
In the Netherlands this subject got a lot of reactions in the newspapers, social media and TV. .
Comedians on TV made a fun item with it.
I hope you can auto translate subtitles.
Its about a petting zoo who cant sell their eggs bc of the PFAS, the 4 guys are from a musical that has to skip performances bc of the upcoming NATO conference and it refers to a huge spectacle they perform every year in a different setting on Thursday before Easter : the Passion with a huge cross.
Enjoy.
Comedians on TV made a fun item with it.
I hope you can auto translate subtitles.
Its about a petting zoo who cant sell their eggs bc of the PFAS, the 4 guys are from a musical that has to skip performances bc of the upcoming NATO conference and it refers to a huge spectacle they perform every year in a different setting on Thursday before Easter : the Passion with a huge cross.
you guys might want to compare this
https://avestia.com/ICESA2024_Proceedings/files/paper/ICESA_185.pdf
Other countries with similar research haven't jumped to the same conclusions. For example, in this paper we hear about it as pertaining to Greece, Belgium and Italy as well as the Netherlands (and in a more readable and succinct fashion).
https://avestia.com/ICESA2024_Proceedings/files/paper/ICESA_185.pdf
Other countries with similar research haven't jumped to the same conclusions. For example, in this paper we hear about it as pertaining to Greece, Belgium and Italy as well as the Netherlands (and in a more readable and succinct fashion).
- Thread starter
- #977
Sometimes yes. They find the maggots much tastier than earthworms though. But the RIVM only researched the earthworms.
Yes, Its a problem they warned people to stop eating their backyard eggs before the know everything that has to be known. It causes panic. Angry people. Unbelief. Neglect.
I am mainly pissed that the pollution is so widespread and the government says stop to eat eggs from your happy chickens and eat eggs from factory farming. In the meanwhile they dont do much about the factories that pollute our environment. And they don’t mention the poison in chicken eggs that eat cheap chicken feed (GMO) .
Many people who have BYC do this bc they don't like to eat eggs from factory farming (=animal abuse ).
Last edited:
Skyeknight
Songster
Now that I have read over the Dutch paper some things stand out to me. It is probably me nitpicking a bit.
"Calculations of PFAS exposure through the consumption of the eggsfrom the 60 locations were performed as described in Boon et al.(2024)."
I find it a bit weird that the actual human exposure assessment was written as a whole other paper. Maybe there was enough material for 2 papers, but to me this paper feels a incomplete without it.
"Figure 7 Exposure to PFAS in ng PEQ/kg body weight per week through other food and drinking water (background exposure; blue)and through commercial eggs or home-produced eggs (orange) from the 60 locations."
Why are commercial eggs and home produced eggs pooled in this figure? This just amkes no sense to me. They aren't proving that Commercial eggs have less PFAS this way.
"The source or sources of PFAS in home-produced eggs are currentlyunknown. Research and consultancy firm Arcadis recently published a study in which various types of chicken feed, water, soil, bedding,mealworms, vitamins, medications, and earthworms were investigated as potential sources of PFAS in home-produced eggs from the region around Chemours (Arcadis, 2024). This study showed that earthworms might be a significant source of PFAS in the home-produced eggs. The authors noted, however, that it is unclear whether this is the only source of exposure. As part of the current study, a nationwide investigation is being conducted to gather more information about the possible source or sources of PFAS in home-produced eggs. Results are expected in the second half of 2025."
Just thought this was interesting to show here.
"In this study, eggs from 60 locations across the Netherlands have been analysed. Although this number is insufficient to cover all regions in the Netherlands, it is not expected that more locations will change the risk assessment (see chapter 5). Results show that high PFAS concentrations in home-produced eggs can occur across the country."
I do agree that more locations wouldn't change the overall risk assessment, but it could change the amount of eggs that could safely be eaten locally to a way better degree. Personally I live between a 0 and 4 or more, so what does that actually mean for me and others in the same boat? I think they went public before they even had exposure routes for example cause they thought the amount of PFAS is dangerous enough to warrant a complete stop for eating jome produced eggs.
"Calculations of PFAS exposure through the consumption of the eggsfrom the 60 locations were performed as described in Boon et al.(2024)."
I find it a bit weird that the actual human exposure assessment was written as a whole other paper. Maybe there was enough material for 2 papers, but to me this paper feels a incomplete without it.
"Figure 7 Exposure to PFAS in ng PEQ/kg body weight per week through other food and drinking water (background exposure; blue)and through commercial eggs or home-produced eggs (orange) from the 60 locations."
Why are commercial eggs and home produced eggs pooled in this figure? This just amkes no sense to me. They aren't proving that Commercial eggs have less PFAS this way.
"The source or sources of PFAS in home-produced eggs are currentlyunknown. Research and consultancy firm Arcadis recently published a study in which various types of chicken feed, water, soil, bedding,mealworms, vitamins, medications, and earthworms were investigated as potential sources of PFAS in home-produced eggs from the region around Chemours (Arcadis, 2024). This study showed that earthworms might be a significant source of PFAS in the home-produced eggs. The authors noted, however, that it is unclear whether this is the only source of exposure. As part of the current study, a nationwide investigation is being conducted to gather more information about the possible source or sources of PFAS in home-produced eggs. Results are expected in the second half of 2025."
Just thought this was interesting to show here.
I do think risk assessment can't really help but have a lot of abbreviations, but I could have used reminders a few times with this paper. I do agree with that they should have done more research.
"In this study, eggs from 60 locations across the Netherlands have been analysed. Although this number is insufficient to cover all regions in the Netherlands, it is not expected that more locations will change the risk assessment (see chapter 5). Results show that high PFAS concentrations in home-produced eggs can occur across the country."
I do agree that more locations wouldn't change the overall risk assessment, but it could change the amount of eggs that could safely be eaten locally to a way better degree. Personally I live between a 0 and 4 or more, so what does that actually mean for me and others in the same boat? I think they went public before they even had exposure routes for example cause they thought the amount of PFAS is dangerous enough to warrant a complete stop for eating jome produced eggs.
For as far as I can read this abstract they only collected eggs from Greece and had 14 volunteers that got a total of 75 eggs, which is less than the Dutch study. But the amounts are way lower and they actually do use μg!
Like others on this thread I am a tad skeptical. My skepticism starts with the units of the assessment being different from EU guidance and goes on to the backyard vs commercial eggs.
Where is the data that commercial eggs are lower in PFAS?
And what is the underlying theory for why commercial eggs should be ‘cleaner’? It cannot surely be that backyard chickens eat a few earthworms.
I am sure it is too expensive but I would want to send some grocery store eggs to the testing company (pretending they were backyard eggs) and see the results.
Then, as I have understood it, PFAS are everywhere. I just read 90% of bottled water contains PFAS (I don’t know at what level) so that would make me want to test a range of other things I eat.
Don’t get me wrong I believe they are bad for us, what I am deeply skeptical about is that eating eggs from backyard chickens is any worse than most of the other things we eat.
Where is the data that commercial eggs are lower in PFAS?
And what is the underlying theory for why commercial eggs should be ‘cleaner’? It cannot surely be that backyard chickens eat a few earthworms.
I am sure it is too expensive but I would want to send some grocery store eggs to the testing company (pretending they were backyard eggs) and see the results.
Then, as I have understood it, PFAS are everywhere. I just read 90% of bottled water contains PFAS (I don’t know at what level) so that would make me want to test a range of other things I eat.
Don’t get me wrong I believe they are bad for us, what I am deeply skeptical about is that eating eggs from backyard chickens is any worse than most of the other things we eat.
- Thread starter
- #980
NRC newspaper published a nice to read interview. Autotranslated:
PFAS in my eggs? I'm not going to do,' says the chicken farmer after RIVM's warning
Background
Hobby chickens Don't eat eggs from private individuals anymore, RIVM advised last week. Exaggerated, say people with chickens. "I don't eat an egg less for it."
Authors Martine Kamsma
Published on April 20, 2025
RIVM called last week to stop eating private eggs throughout the Netherlands. Samples showed that people already received more PFAS than the limit value if they eat less than one egg a week.
Eight clumsy chickens scramble in the garden of Alma Huisken in the North Groningen village of Molenrij. The five wyandottes are retired. With red cones they occasionally press out an egg. Three younger farm chickens are still laying in abundance, from early spring until September. Huisken and her partner each eat three to five eggs a week in the good months. And sometimes a goose egg, of the eight geese that also waggle around here.
Grass, a pond, scrub, groves and a soil full of worms and insects – they live like a god here in Groningen. Huisken is so captivated by chicken love, that she even wrote a book about it: The green chicken book, course and cookbook in one.
"PFAS-gein", Huisken calls the call of health institute RIVM last week to stop eating private eggs throughout the Netherlands. She thinks the advice is exaggerated. "If we do test, why not the chicken feed and all possible pesticides on it?"
RIVM took samples at sixty locations. On 31 of them, people already get more PFAS than the limit value if they eat less than one egg a week, it turned out. And taking too many of these microscopic plastic particles and chemical compounds for too long can be harmful to health, including the defense against diseases.
"PFAS are everywhere in it," she says. Why the magnifying glass on eggs? She knows the answer. „There is constant messing with poultry farming – bird flu, storage obligation, high prices – it is good for the industry if people no longer eat and buy hobby eggs.”
Huisken (69), has been angry about foaming poison in rivers and pesticide use in agriculture for half a century. And yes, when she still lived near the blast furnaces in IJmuiden, she also tasted iron in north wind when she was outside. „But I have been living on very healthy land for 21 years, where poison or fertilizer has never been added. PFAS in my eggs? I'm not going to.”
Not every private individual with chickens in the garden is so sure of that, see the owners of Testenoppfas.nl, which sells PFAS eget tests. They have received about three hundred orders a day since last week's news, says Lars Roelofse. While normally there are sometimes days without orders.
Test kit at 269.50 euros
Testenoppfas has been working together with the accredited laboratory Normec since last year to meet demand, after the NVWA also advised not to eat eggs from hobby chickens in March last year. „We heard that only companies could have it tested. We thought: why shouldn't private individuals be able to do that?”
Customers receive a test kit at 269.50 euros in which they put ten eggs, which they send to the lab. There they are tested on 25 different substances that fall under the name PFAS. At the bottom of the test report is the sum of the concentration of all those substances in their eggs. And what percentage is this of the EU standard. „We are very careful with interpreting the results: for health questions we refer to the GGD. Whether people still consume their eggs is up to them”, says Roelofse.
Testenoppfas receives orders from all over the Netherlands, even from Belgium. „We see very different results, but they are not tied to certain regions. My brother-in-law, for example, who turned out to have huge amounts of PFAS in his eggs. As it turned out: in his garden, a barn was once burned down and extinguished with PFAS-containing foam. You don't always know what's in the bottom.”
Biodiversity and soil life
Sible Westendorp also has such a story. He himself has Frisian country hens and a few New Hampshires. They live in an indoor loft with a small run where the chickens walk on wood flakes and tree bark. His eggs tested 'clean'. "While I live near Roosendaal, almost under the smoke of the chemical factories of 3M near Antwerp."
A few hundred meters away, the neighbor's chickens walk in a lush garden. "There, the neighbor tested extremely high," says Westendorp, who, in addition to hobby chicken keeper, is also a veterinarian, specializing in hobby poultry. "That's the sad thing: that this just affects people who cherish the biodiversity in their garden, and have a gigantic soil life there."
The tricky thing about self-testing, says Westendorp, is that some substances under the PFAS umbrella are more harmful than others. This makes it difficult for private chicken farmers to properly assess the risks. „RIVM needs to provide more clarity on this. No one knows exactly what risks we are talking about.”
For more reasons, Westendorp, also chairman of KleindierNed, a umbrella organization of animal husbandry organizations, is "not so happy" with the RIVM report. The samples do not show what risks there are at which locations. PFAS can come from industry, but are also very locally in the ground. And so there are no solutions.
„Actually you say: we have poisoned the world so much that you are no longer allowed to eat your own eggs. But then you won't be able to eat a lot more that hasn't been investigated now. Because even without eggs, the Dutch get too much PFAS. We have ended up in a world where you can only eat food produced under controlled conditions.”
The chicken doctor sees that people are slowly becoming grumbling from all the poison messages. Temporarily they may eat a little less hobby eggs, he says, "but that soon disappears".
In Groningen, says Alma Huisken, you can still buy eggs anywhere along the road. And she doesn't know anyone who gets rid of their chickens because of PFAS. She herself sees only one solution: "Make sure you do the best you can do on your own piece of land. At least I don't eat an egg less for it.”
Background
Hobby chickens Don't eat eggs from private individuals anymore, RIVM advised last week. Exaggerated, say people with chickens. "I don't eat an egg less for it."
Authors Martine Kamsma
Published on April 20, 2025
RIVM called last week to stop eating private eggs throughout the Netherlands. Samples showed that people already received more PFAS than the limit value if they eat less than one egg a week.
Eight clumsy chickens scramble in the garden of Alma Huisken in the North Groningen village of Molenrij. The five wyandottes are retired. With red cones they occasionally press out an egg. Three younger farm chickens are still laying in abundance, from early spring until September. Huisken and her partner each eat three to five eggs a week in the good months. And sometimes a goose egg, of the eight geese that also waggle around here.
Grass, a pond, scrub, groves and a soil full of worms and insects – they live like a god here in Groningen. Huisken is so captivated by chicken love, that she even wrote a book about it: The green chicken book, course and cookbook in one.
"PFAS-gein", Huisken calls the call of health institute RIVM last week to stop eating private eggs throughout the Netherlands. She thinks the advice is exaggerated. "If we do test, why not the chicken feed and all possible pesticides on it?"
RIVM took samples at sixty locations. On 31 of them, people already get more PFAS than the limit value if they eat less than one egg a week, it turned out. And taking too many of these microscopic plastic particles and chemical compounds for too long can be harmful to health, including the defense against diseases.
"PFAS are everywhere in it," she says. Why the magnifying glass on eggs? She knows the answer. „There is constant messing with poultry farming – bird flu, storage obligation, high prices – it is good for the industry if people no longer eat and buy hobby eggs.”
Huisken (69), has been angry about foaming poison in rivers and pesticide use in agriculture for half a century. And yes, when she still lived near the blast furnaces in IJmuiden, she also tasted iron in north wind when she was outside. „But I have been living on very healthy land for 21 years, where poison or fertilizer has never been added. PFAS in my eggs? I'm not going to.”
Not every private individual with chickens in the garden is so sure of that, see the owners of Testenoppfas.nl, which sells PFAS eget tests. They have received about three hundred orders a day since last week's news, says Lars Roelofse. While normally there are sometimes days without orders.
Test kit at 269.50 euros
Testenoppfas has been working together with the accredited laboratory Normec since last year to meet demand, after the NVWA also advised not to eat eggs from hobby chickens in March last year. „We heard that only companies could have it tested. We thought: why shouldn't private individuals be able to do that?”
Customers receive a test kit at 269.50 euros in which they put ten eggs, which they send to the lab. There they are tested on 25 different substances that fall under the name PFAS. At the bottom of the test report is the sum of the concentration of all those substances in their eggs. And what percentage is this of the EU standard. „We are very careful with interpreting the results: for health questions we refer to the GGD. Whether people still consume their eggs is up to them”, says Roelofse.
Testenoppfas receives orders from all over the Netherlands, even from Belgium. „We see very different results, but they are not tied to certain regions. My brother-in-law, for example, who turned out to have huge amounts of PFAS in his eggs. As it turned out: in his garden, a barn was once burned down and extinguished with PFAS-containing foam. You don't always know what's in the bottom.”
Biodiversity and soil life
Sible Westendorp also has such a story. He himself has Frisian country hens and a few New Hampshires. They live in an indoor loft with a small run where the chickens walk on wood flakes and tree bark. His eggs tested 'clean'. "While I live near Roosendaal, almost under the smoke of the chemical factories of 3M near Antwerp."
A few hundred meters away, the neighbor's chickens walk in a lush garden. "There, the neighbor tested extremely high," says Westendorp, who, in addition to hobby chicken keeper, is also a veterinarian, specializing in hobby poultry. "That's the sad thing: that this just affects people who cherish the biodiversity in their garden, and have a gigantic soil life there."
The tricky thing about self-testing, says Westendorp, is that some substances under the PFAS umbrella are more harmful than others. This makes it difficult for private chicken farmers to properly assess the risks. „RIVM needs to provide more clarity on this. No one knows exactly what risks we are talking about.”
For more reasons, Westendorp, also chairman of KleindierNed, a umbrella organization of animal husbandry organizations, is "not so happy" with the RIVM report. The samples do not show what risks there are at which locations. PFAS can come from industry, but are also very locally in the ground. And so there are no solutions.
„Actually you say: we have poisoned the world so much that you are no longer allowed to eat your own eggs. But then you won't be able to eat a lot more that hasn't been investigated now. Because even without eggs, the Dutch get too much PFAS. We have ended up in a world where you can only eat food produced under controlled conditions.”
The chicken doctor sees that people are slowly becoming grumbling from all the poison messages. Temporarily they may eat a little less hobby eggs, he says, "but that soon disappears".
In Groningen, says Alma Huisken, you can still buy eggs anywhere along the road. And she doesn't know anyone who gets rid of their chickens because of PFAS. She herself sees only one solution: "Make sure you do the best you can do on your own piece of land. At least I don't eat an egg less for it.”
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