Calling All Cream Legbar Breeders- 2024 Edition

@GaryDean26

Yes, I actually have spoken to various judges and poultry exhibitors....
Low production and fertility are the result of inbreeding depression. To achieve consistency in a line you have to be able to control the genetics and the quickest way to do that is to close the flock. Every breed that has ever been created used line breeding to some degree. Yes, it results in low fertility after a few generations. Outcross undoes most of the progress achieve in a line though so with standard bred chickens it is always balance between inbreeding for desired traits and outbreeding for the health of the line.

Exhibitors with lines that are consistently placing very well in shows don't want to out breed because it could ruin their line resulting in them never winning anything again.

There are dozens of breeding plans out there that all address the inbreeding and out breeding differently. In the end they all require outbreeding. The longer they can inbreed the higher uniformity can be achieved. That is why vigor is always the first thing that it considered when fitting and mating standard bred chickens. Poor breed line could run into fertility problems in 2-3 generations. Well bred lines might go more like 6-7 generations before running into fertility problems if at all.

The same goes for hardiness. Poorly bred lines could have problems with hardiness in a few generations while well breed line are going to go a lot longer. When you see a really good-looking bird who gets sick it is really tempting to keep it back for breeding anyways. It is much harder to cull the bird, but the advise that is always given is to never breed any bird that has ever been sick. Also they say to always use birds that are at least 2 years old for breeders. If the Fav line is done at 1-1/2 to 2 years old you know that isn't happenings. Putting a couple of hens with cockerel doesn't make someone a breeder. A breeder is someone who knows what they are doing. I was told that it takes about 10 years to start to get a handle on things and that you can't learn it on your own. You need a mentor. So...there are a lot of novices producing chickens who are not breeders. There is nothing wrong with being a novice. With a good mentor you can make progress, but our generation of poultry enthusiast is not the same as the generation that lived before 1950. We outsource a lot of the work that they had to do themself, and it has removed us from the knowledge of a lot of the details that go into breeding poultry.

Crossing lines creates hybrid vigor. That is why production birds are all from cross line matings and cross breed hybrids. Your line bred legbars may only lay 165 eggs year, but cross them with another line bred breed that lays 180 eggs a year and if they nick well you may get offspring that are laying 250 eggs a year. The hybird vigor only works the first cross so breeding the 250 egg hybrid with another 250 egg hybrid and you may only get 170 eggs.

Breeds that are well bred for the correct body structure, etc. are very important. They are used to produce production birds.

Chest depth is not something that is easy to improve. There is the nature factor and there is the nurture factor. Some have been successful in getting fuller birds through aggressive worming programs and special feed. Nurture is the easier thing. The nature method usually involves borrowing genetics from other breeds with an out cross then breeding back to the standard. You have to be careful what you cross to though. You always get more than just the thing you are trying in improve from an out cross. Working within the breed you get "like for like". If you keep breeding the birds with the best depth you will see more consistency at getting birds with that depth. To increase the depth however is something that poultry genetic companies have to go through thousands of birds to improve.

No, I don't know anything about the breed club. I was on the board from 2012-2014 as the club president. When my term was up, Michael Baker was made club President. Since them Tony Markly, Elissa Teel-Duggan, and Sara Merranko served as presidents. I was asked to service as an interim region director for a year to complete Kathy Kinsel's term when she left the club. I also assist Kimberly Cook when she was the Editor of the club newsletter to help identify topics for articles and club members to write on said topics. I haven't had any involvement with the club since about 2019. I think the Board decided to stop holding meeting during covid and that since then everyone on the last sitting board has moved on to other things. It is pretty clear that someone currently involved with the breed needs to call a meeting and post it on all Legbar groups to hold officer elections. Anyone who wants to be a part of the club would be able to elect new officers. No current membership required. Getting the treasury, SOP, Breed History, Website, Facebook page, APA contacts, etc. turned over after there are elected officers for them to go to would be pretty simple.

I have never work with Opal Legbars. I was told there is an Opal Breeders group somewhere (FaceBook? Other?). I would looking for an Opal Legbar Group.
 
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I searched the facebook groups and their is an "Opal Legbar" group with 1.2K members. The owner of the group is Jeffery Vitale in Michigan. I don't know him.

The other group I found is "Opal and Isabel Legbar Fan Club". It also has 1.2K members. Probably all the same people as "Opal Legbar". Candance Waldon is one of the admins for that group. She is the person who created the Opal Legbars. I worked with her on few Legbar related projects (and a Blue Breda Fowl Project) in the past. I would join the Fan Club Group. It was created a full year before the "Opal Legbar" group. I am not a member of either group though, so I don't know if there are different focuses.
 
Hi. I am quite late to the scene regarding Cream Legbars and breeding but have been scouring the archives to read anything I can legbar related. Mainly the standard and the specific nuances working with this breed.

I have come to realize two things in my months of research:

1- The official breed clubs website and Facebook group are down. The site is literally non functional and all the valuable PDFs and information contained within in it are in limbo at this time. The FB group is quite stagnant. From what I understand the club was having issues with member numbers and change of chair persons due to life circumstances changing. I think they are supposed to have a new election but I have no clue when or if that will happen. I had saved all the valuable information and PDFs from the breed club on my phone but when I had to switch phones recently, unfortunately those files didn't transfer to my new device and now I have no way to get them back 😞 * Does anyone here happen to have them and would be willing to email them to me?

2- The two "official" Legbar threads here on BYC were started back in 2012 and both of them haven't had activity on them for a quite a while. (Up until I posted on them a couple days ago and I believe only two others have said hello since)

Due to the above I am posting this thread to find current breeders that would like to collaborate on their breeding efforts with this breed.

I have very specific questions about working with this breed and would love to hear from breeders who have already been working with them so I can learn from their experiences.

I have tail issues in one of the groups I acquired this year. Too high, too long, and pinched. I would like to breed away from that.

I also would like to get insight on colors and type and compensation Mating when it comes to this color variety.

I know with Faverolles a lot of breeders keep dual lines. Meaning a male and a female specific line for the different colors. I have read this is done because they believe you can't breed the perfect male with certain female color and vice versa. I was wondering if people have run into this issue regarding Legbars? I would have assumed that you could get correct males and females within the same line if selected for properly but maybe that assumption is wrong and you do need two separate specific color lines 🤷 I honestly don't know. Anyone care to weigh in?

I also currently have a huge range of color on the cockerels I have here. I have a couple that have little to no red at all and are very white. Too white- I would think. Then I have a cockerel with definite and distinct barring with minimal red and then the youngest cockerel had definite barring and so far no red at all. Does red show up later?

Should I worry more about type at this point and not color?

I am currently working on a line of Cream and Opal Legbar. If anyone here is specifically working with Opal I would love to hear from you!
I am incubating some CCL eggs now with hopes of both sexes to breed! I have 1 hen now and fell in love. Had to have more!!
 

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