Feeding a laying flock with roosters (calcium concerns, etc.)

[Digby57]

My flock is at 9 weeks now and I'm contemplating their feed ration going forward. To this point they have been fed Manna Pro Organic Starter free choice along with a fermented feed rationed daily that includes hemp seed, pressed hemp meal, oats, wheat and sunflower seed. To this I also add soldier fly larvae (when I feed, not in the fermentation jar). They also get Manna Pro chick grit free choice.

At this point I am supposed to switch to 17% Manna Pro Organic Grower, but no one in my area carries it, so I'm looking for something that is commonly available to me rather than asking a feed store to order in the grower at this time.

Now my real question, and I realize this has been asked and answered by many on these forums, but that's part of the issue. At 16 weeks (or there abouts) how am I going to get the hens sufficient calcium without giving my roosters too much calcium? I see many say (essentially) "don't worry about it." I see others that seem convinced that I should be concerned about it. I will also be adding young pullets into this flock at some point, so its not only the roosters I am concerned about. I have a good way to give oyster shell free choice, but I understand that oyster shell alone is not likely to give me the calcium I'm going to eventually need. I am letting my flock (of 12, which I believe is currently 8 pullets and 4 cockerels) out for a couple hours before sunset at this point and I intend to eventually let them free range all day and lock them up at night. I am going to attempt to keep 2 roosters, but that may end up being 1, I don't know.

A local old-timer has recommended that I give pelleted cattle feed free choice (to keep my costs down) and between that, the fermented grains, oyster shell and free range bugs / plants they'll be getting he seems confident they will get everything they need. I am shying away from giving them back their shells, I would prefer to not risk teaching them to eat eggs. I'm going to either discontinue the black soldier fly larvae or change it to standard freeze-dried meal worms, I haven't decided. The soldier fly larvae is a bit too expensive long term, though it is a good source of calcium. I doubt that it would be a good method for supplying calcium anyways because I would need to give them a lot more than I am now and I'm pretty sure the roosters will be taking more per head than the hens. They go crazy for them, I add approximately 20-30 each day meaning that they are each getting a few on average daily.

To sum it up, please let me know if you have advice on a ration, brand of feed or any other advice. Please let me know if I'm missing anything else I should consider in the bigger picture. Its safe to say I'm going to err on the side of caution in protecting the long term health of these roosters because I do want to maintain them to the best of my ability and breed them on an ongoing basis.

 

[perchie.girl]

Feed Flock raiser to everyone or what ever brand of non calcium feed you prefer.... then offer Oyster shell free choice....

The hens will get enough and the roos will pass it up.

Soldier fly can be raised by you if you want.... Just get a starter population then there are several different ways to deliver them to the chickens most are self feeding.

http://www.blacksoldierflyfarming.com/

Nice part about Soldier flies is the larva can digest fats and meat so the nastier bits from you waste bin can be composted... Once they grow into adults their only job is to reproduce and die.

deb

 

[Pyxis]

For my flock, I keep them on chick starter/grower forever. It looks like you're trying to stick to organic, so you could still go ahead and use an organic feed for this.

To make sure the hens get enough calcium, you would feed oyster shell on the side free choice. This allows the hens to take what they need and keeps the non laying birds and roosters from getting too much calcium, which does cause kidney damage over time.

Just a quick note, be careful on the fermented feed. A lot of people swear by it, but it can be dangerous. I know of someone who lost nearly her whole flock overnight, and when she sent one of the birds off for necropsy, it was confirmed that it was the fermented feed that did it.

 

[sawilliams]

My understanding is becuase chicks and roosters don't use the extra calcium for egg production they can't rid thier bodies of the excess which could possibly cuase healthy issues down the line.

Starter feed i think is the highest protein count unless you buy a finisher for meat type birds or feather fixer for molting. Starter and grower (or all flock) do have some calcium, enough from growing but not enough for egg production.
You have to look at the labels and content too. I picked up an organic grower that is only 17% protein much closer to the 16-18% protein that most layer feeds are but much lower calcium too. Different brands label differently too... grower, all flock, mixed flock. You just have to find what fits your needs. But yes if you have a rooster it's best to use an all flock type feed and if you hatch chicks they can eat the all flock as well just be sure to use the vitiman mixes that add to their water, all of the flock would benefit from that as well

 

[Digby57]

Thanks, I would eventually be interested in culturing the black soldier fly larvae, but I need one less project currently. I see the black soldier fly adults all over now that I know what they are - I always thought they were little wasps or mason bees.

I do see several people saying that oyster shell is sufficient as a stand alone supplement for Ca now that I see your comments and read around a little more. I guess I'll look for a organic "mixed flock" or "all flock" type pellet (they're getting too messy with these crumbles) and see what happens. At roughly $1 per lb for the Manna Pro Starter I can't justify it long term. I'll see what I can find locally, I hope to find something good that I know will be kept in stock.

Regarding the fermented feed, I have been trying to be very cautious with it and never let it get too rank, erring on the side of starting a new batch rather than risk mold or alcohol. I start mine with this stuff and I think it works great. http://www.ebay.com/itm/AviBios-Lac...d=182742601553&_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726

I know most people say that a starter isn't necessary, and I realize its really not, but its inexpensive in the scheme of things and if it helps jump start my ferment and thereby gives the lacto bacillus a leg up and helps to out compete anything else, then its worth it to me.

This little jar goes a long way as I add only a tsp per gallon batch. I end up making a new batch about every 10 days, but its not difficult. I am feeding 2 cups per day and I think that's sufficient long term.

 

[Digby57]

I'm not finding anything that fits the bill except Nutrena NatureWise All Flock. And I can only find the "Country Feeds" version anyways, not the NatureWise. Manna Pro has a 16% "All Flock" but its out of the price range.

What am I missing? This seems like it would be a common problem. Do people just feed their roosters layer feed?

I found a beef feed "All natural" 14% protein by Kalmbach that's available right down the road from me, but I don't know if its sufficient in regards to the other criteria (not just protein). No urea, but it looks a little low in fat and just doesn't seem to have the vitamin content I see in the poultry feeds. Its $13/50lbs, so that's notable: http://www.kalmbachfeeds.com/shopping/beef/5014.aspx

Or I can get this, but its going to be twice as much: http://www.kalmbachfeeds.com/shopping/poultry/1044PL.aspx

 

[sawilliams]

Yes some do feed thier roosters layer feed. As to how dangerous the extra calcium could be for a rooster long term i have no idea. Could it be affordable for you to do at least do a half and half mix with layer and all flock? It would decrease the overall calcium for now and perhaps give you some time to look into brands that can be delivered. Also talk to you feed store they might be able too order a different brand to and stock it. The tsc in the town just north of me carries more starter and layer feed becuse is a more suburban area where the one closer to my house carries 2 or 3 all flock types, becuase there are more rural customers

 

[Digby57]

Thanks, I've called around to all of the feed stores in my area, but because I'm in thoroughbred country the chicken feed options are fewer (I guess). TSC and Rural King are about an hour away for me and they don't have anything out of the ordinary on their websites that I've seen. I see all kinds of great organic stuff online, but by the time you add the $25 freight on a 50lb bag of feed you're back to nearly $1 / lb anyways.

 

[Digby57]

Does anyone have any advice on that cattle feed I linked? http://www.kalmbachfeeds.com/shopping/beef/5014.aspx
http://www.kalmbachfeeds.com/shopping/beef/5014.aspx
I can bump that protein % up to 16 or 18% no problem, but its the other constituents (or lack of them) that I'm not sure about.

 

[coach723]

I feed a grower feed or flock raiser, and when I have to, due to supply, I will mix in layer feed no more than 50/50. I will often mix more than one brand of feed, again due to supply. I do feed egg shells mixed in 50/50 with oyster shell and have had no issues, I bake the shells and then grind in a small food processor. I don't have any egg eaters. It's offered free choice in separate feeders. No idea on the cattle feed, I would be concerned about the urea content and the mineral content as the needs of cattle tend to be different.