Future plans for 2025! Breeding for large meaties, barring, lacing and EE

[DemeterAD9]

I'm definitely counting my chicks before the pullets even begin laying! This will hopefully be a long thread to help me keep track of all the specifics. I intend to hatch eggs from my very first flock of birds come spring time. Hopefully most will be laying by then but we shall see, if I intend to hatch eggs around Easter then 2 hens will be 1 year old and the rest will be 10 months old.

Question: How does the lacing genes work? What about the penciling on dark brahmas? I have some understand about egg color and barring genes, what I need to create OE/EE and even sex linking but I haven't done much reading on lacing nor penciling. I really love the patterns in my dark brahma and silver laced pullet so creating more of that would be nice even if it happened to take a couple generations.

My current plan (which is likely to change) is to create EE/OE that are barred and/or laced. I do not have a ton of breeds to work with who have these characteristics nor do I have a ton of space but it is something I'd like to play with. For lacing I have a silver laced Wyandotte and a barnyard mix pullet who looks to have both lacing and barring (she's a favorite). As for barring, I have 1 crested cream legbar based EE pullet (I think she is barred?) and the mixed pullet already mentioned. I have yet to know for sure if the barred/laced mix will even lay colored eggs but even if she doesn't I'll likely still use her because she is so pretty IMO. 1 sapphire OE and 1 prairie blue bell along with another 3 hatchery EEs (1 bantam) and 1 frizzle BYM that should be fathered by a frizzle EE so we will have to see what her eggs look like. I'm not really looking to create more frizzles but she's actually growing on me, at best it's a 1/3 chance of getting a frizzle anyways. There is another pullet who is a BYM that may or may not lay a pretty egg. For roos, it's going to change as I've not yet decided who will stay long term. For now I have an EE and a blue copper maran, either one should work for creating EE/OE depending on which pullets I use.

I also want some big meat birds and for that I have 1m/3f black Jersey giants, 4F brahmas (2 light, 1 buff, 1 dark) and 1m/2f large fowl mixes that contain brahma, Jersey giant, bresse, and Bielefelder. This is going to be a side project more than anything.

Overall the projects will depend on which roo(s) I choose and right now it's a toss up as they are all young cockerels. Ideally I'd have 2 breeding groups but I do not have the pen space for that. I would like to keep the large foul mix cockerel as he's growing up to be a big boy but if I can only keep one roo then the meat bird project will have to carry on with whichever roo I choose. If I'm being honest with myself, the blue copper maran is probably going to be the top pick based on breed size and having dark brown egg genes. Plus he hasn't show any human aggression like the EE.

 

[DemeterAD9]

Frizzle EE who I call Moe, her brother Curly got cut. Hatched from a green egg.

Cream legbar based OE, I assume maran is in the mix based off feathered legs. Not really sure if she is consider barred or not.

BYM laced/barred pullet. She hatched from a colored egg that came from a road side stand.

Sapphire OE and prairie blue bell.

 

[FlockVillemaire]

I'm definitely counting my chicks before the pullets even begin laying! This will hopefully be a long thread to help me keep track of all the specifics. I intend to hatch eggs from my very first flock of birds come spring time. Hopefully most will be laying by then but we shall see, if I intend to hatch eggs around Easter then 2 hens will be 1 year old and the rest will be 10 months old.

Question: How does the lacing genes work? What about the penciling on dark brahmas? I have some understand about egg color and barring genes, what I need to create OE/EE and even sex linking but I haven't done much reading on lacing nor penciling. I really love the patterns in my dark brahma and silver laced pullet so creating more of that would be nice even if it happened to take a couple generations.

My current plan (which is likely to change) is to create EE/OE that are barred and/or laced. I do not have a ton of breeds to work with who have these characteristics nor do I have a ton of space but it is something I'd like to play with. For lacing I have a silver laced Wyandotte and a barnyard mix pullet who looks to have both lacing and barring (she's a favorite). As for barring, I have 1 crested cream legbar based EE pullet (I think she is barred?) and the mixed pullet already mentioned. I have yet to know for sure if the barred/laced mix will even lay colored eggs but even if she doesn't I'll likely still use her because she is so pretty IMO. 1 sapphire OE and 1 prairie blue bell along with another 3 hatchery EEs (1 bantam) and 1 frizzle BYM that should be fathered by a frizzle EE so we will have to see what her eggs look like. I'm not really looking to create more frizzles but she's actually growing on me, at best it's a 1/3 chance of getting a frizzle anyways. There is another pullet who is a BYM that may or may not lay a pretty egg. For roos, it's going to change as I've not yet decided who will stay long term. For now I have an EE and a blue copper maran, either one should work for creating EE/OE depending on which pullets I use.

I also want some big meat birds and for that I have 1m/3f black Jersey giants, 4F brahmas (2 light, 1 buff, 1 dark) and 1m/2f large fowl mixes that contain brahma, Jersey giant, bresse, and Bielefelder. This is going to be a side project more than anything.

Overall the projects will depend on which roo(s) I choose and right now it's a toss up as they are all young cockerels. Ideally I'd have 2 breeding groups but I do not have the pen space for that. I would like to keep the large foul mix cockerel as he's growing up to be a big boy but if I can only keep one roo then the meat bird project will have to carry on with whichever roo I choose. If I'm being honest with myself, the blue copper maran is probably going to be the top pick based on breed size and having dark brown egg genes. Plus he hasn't show any human aggression like the EE.

I think the pencilling in Brahmas is very different from the Light/Buff Brahmas that actually have the barring allele, which I haven't read up on, since I only got the Light Brahmas. But I think I even love the Dark Brahma's pencilling far more!

I found this excerpt at https://cluckin.net/chicken-genetics-gene-table-and-breeding.html#mcetoc_1dnsqdri04

"Pencilled or Partridge feather Pattern:​

Pencilled or partridge feathers resemble laced plumage but the lines are thinner and they don’t lace the outside of the feather.

With pencilled plumage, the lines are much thinner and while they follow the contour and shape of the feather but don’t trim the outside edge of it.

Examples of pencilled chicken breeds include the silver or gold pencilled Wyandottes or the pencilled Cochin.

Below: A gold pencilled Wyandotte bantam.

People often think of pencilling as triple lacing as there are three lines but the colours are reversed from lacing and the ground colour trims the outside of the feathers.

The Partridge feather pattern is the same as pencilled and there may be more than 3 bands on the feathers or sometimes a black line up the quill."
(But this site does not mention any genetic dominance or recessivity for pencilling. I didn't look at others since I don't have any of this feather pattern to work with.)

So, I am very curious if you've done any of these breeding projects you've mentioned???

 

[DemeterAD9]

I think the pencilling in Brahmas is very different from the Light/Buff Brahmas that actually have the barring allele, which I haven't read up on, since I only got the Light Brahmas. But I think I even love the Dark Brahma's pencilling far more!

I found this excerpt at https://cluckin.net/chicken-genetics-gene-table-and-breeding.html#mcetoc_1dnsqdri04

"Pencilled or Partridge feather Pattern:​

Pencilled or partridge feathers resemble laced plumage but the lines are thinner and they don’t lace the outside of the feather.

With pencilled plumage, the lines are much thinner and while they follow the contour and shape of the feather but don’t trim the outside edge of it.

Examples of pencilled chicken breeds include the silver or gold pencilled Wyandottes or the pencilled Cochin.

Below: A gold pencilled Wyandotte bantam.

People often think of pencilling as triple lacing as there are three lines but the colours are reversed from lacing and the ground colour trims the outside of the feathers.

The Partridge feather pattern is the same as pencilled and there may be more than 3 bands on the feathers or sometimes a black line up the quill."
(But this site does not mention any genetic dominance or recessivity for pencilling. I didn't look at others since I don't have any of this feather pattern to work with.)

So, I am very curious if you've done any of these breeding projects you've mentioned???

Only have one pullet at laying age so not there yet! Will be putting plans into action come spring. In all honesty the genetics, especially the abbreviation and what not, are all a foreign language to me right now. I just need to know what is dominat, recessive, partially/co dominant etc. I learn best when I see the results myself. If all goes well I will have some results in ~7-8 months.



Now for some updates, the EE cockerel was killed by something, not yet sure what but I've since clipped wings and put out traps (so far caught 1 possum). Honestly was going to butcher him anyways as he was getting too pushy for my liking. The blue copper maran (who I'm calling Pretty Boy) has taken his position and so far he's been a good boy. He doesn't chase the pullets and I've only seen him mate the one laying pullet. Photos don't do him justice, he's a nice bird.

The first pullet laying is this girl who lays a deep coppery olive egg. Will be trying to keep track of who lays what with photos so here it is. Decent size for her 6th egg. I know they look brown in the photos (next to duck eggs for reference) but the inner shell with the membrane pulled back is definitely blue. I noticed the egg I fried up was fertile, she'll be moving forward in the EE/OE project.

For the meaties I'm thinking I'll end up keeping the BJG seeing as Pretty Boy has it out for the white large fowl mix roo. BJG cockerel is good at keeping to himself, he and the BJG pullets stick together more often than not. Many are looking a bit scruffy as they are going into their final molt at 15-16 weeks, hoping for eggs once all is said and done in a few more weeks.

Bonus photo of my lovely barred/laced pullet. Her comb and waddles are getting pretty red, so hopefully soon I'll get to see what she lays. She and 5 other pullets including the silver laced girl are at the 16 week mark.

 

[DemeterAD9]

Made the final decision to cull the RIR and large foul mix cockerels. Both were about 19 weeks give or take a few days. 4 and 6 pounds, pretty happy with the white cockerel's carcass. Both had about 70% yield. Too bad I couldn't keep him for breeding. He's supposed to be part American bresse so hopefully he tastes amazing.

Speaking of bresse, I have a general idea of which hens I want to hatch eggs from for meat birds. The 2 pullets that hatched from the same batch as the white cockerel are high contenders. The all white one with dark blue legs is quite possibly a pure bresse while the other has more yellow tinted legs and some black and grey feathers. Neither one is particularly large, not as large as the brahmas at least, but bresse are said to be quality meat birds (especially when finished properly).

I'm honestly on the fence with the BJGs, they are not particularly large like I was expecting. All 3 pullets are just average sized, the 4 brahmas look bigger right now. Their combs and waddles haven't started looking red or growing much so I'm guessing no eggs from them till spring. The cockerel is pretty lanky and he's not as tall as the white cockerel was. I haven't put hands on them yet but if I were to compare I think Pretty Boy is thicker in the beast than the BJG. Maybe the black boy just needs more time to fill out, or maybe he'll just be an average sized bird and get culled. I'll weigh them both and make that decision come spring, unless he starts acting up. He only just started crowing.

I'm also thinking about culling a few of the pullets. What on earth was I thinking getting 19?! What will I do with all those eggs? I don't mind culling, I honestly like the whole flock management thing because I love being able to see (and taste) the fruits of my labors. But then again, they aren't laying yet so who cares. It's not like I can't afford to spend the ~50$ a month to feed them. It's a cheap hobby compared to other things. If I were to cull pullets, I think I'd do 2 brahmas and 2 BJG. I'm also waiting to see if the 5 OE/EEs even lay colored eggs. Brown layers are likely to get voted out unless they make up for it with size and/or personality.

 

[DemeterAD9]

The blue copper maran roo was showing a few pullets where the nest boxes are just like he did for the first layer. Noticed this one was squatting a few days ago and caught her in the nest box today. Tiny green egg from the crested cream legbar mix at 20 weeks old.

Yesterday I saw the bresse hen squat and get bred so maybe she'll be next.

 

[DemeterAD9]

Bresse pullet was next to lay, she was really digging around in the nest box yesterday but I had to leave for work. Came home to her first egg. Her sister was also checking out the nest boxes and recently started squatting. 22 weeks old today.

Also found a tiny egg with it that is greenish with a few speckels. Thought it was the CLB mix until she laid one this morning. Now I'm thinking it could be the bantam EE due to size but I'm not sure how big bantam pullet eggs normally are. Left to right, tiny egg, CLB mix, olive egg of a pretty normal size.

Just found a small light brown egg in the run so I’ll be trying to figure out who laid it. My guess is the SLW.

 

[DemeterAD9]

It was definitely the bantam laying the small egg.

Caught the other large fowl mix in the nest box.

Better photo of the blue copper maran, he's so stocky.

 

[DemeterAD9]

It seems like all but the Jersey giants and Brahmas are coming into lay all at once. I'm having a hard time figuring out who is laying what at this point. I believe 8-9 are laying and so far I know 5 of them, maybe 7 if my guesses are right. So far I got 6 eggs today and I think at least one more from an EE as she is checking every little nook in the coop right now.

I know the sapphire olive egger is laying these big green eggs, they have tiny brown dots on the fat end.

This is the current line up of eggs, there may be 2 laying small light green eggs but I'm not sure.

These 3 I am unsure who laid them. Front and center is a first egg from someone. Current guess is the laced/barred girl.

I think I may have been wrong about the bresse pullet's eggs. Pretty sure she is the one who laid a couple cream eggs in the run and dropped 2 soft shelled eggs on the roost. She's in a nest box right now so maybe I'll have confirmation soon. Edit: confirmation indeed. This is what she really lays.

I found 4 eggs under the coop a few days ago. So now the far corner has some rocks in it and I just put a wooden crate in the easily accessible corner which my friendly but naughty pullet hopped right in.

 

[DemeterAD9]

Laced/barred pullet's second egg. I was hoping she'd lay colored eggs but oh well. I had to kick her out of the garage a few times and throw treats into the run to lock her in, she was looking all over and squawking to find a good spot. Skin tone egg covered in white dots, pretty none the less.

I will also note I saw one BJG squat for the blue copper maran.