Oriental Gamefowl Thread!

[cubalaya]

they have walnut combs like kulang asil. their tails resemble some thai that i have seen.

 

[BirdmanCA]

they have walnut combs like kulang asil. their tails resemble some thai that i have seen.

Nice yes they do resemble the KULANG large asil lines based on there LBS size and hight I have read about like what they call the Peruvadai type and nothing like the ones
Herbert Atkinson mention of being purebred Asil that only have a maximum weight of 6.5 Lbs but what i am seeing is that the fan tail wide spread tail not long may come from a smaller asil line that they may have bred in to the larger lines for that trait just from what I’m am seeing no evidence or proof yet but looks like what you were saying @nicalandia I wonder if any of the books like Carlos Finsterbusch's "Cockfighting all over the World would shed light on PBA or there origin I know it’s kinda a old book from what I see lol really old but they have the following varieties mentioned like the Hyderabad, Calcutta and Madras. And feel that may steer me in the right direction to start to understand what we are seeing in the modern asil lines we have today I read that the native breeders nowadays use a different classification system Being that The large Asil are divided into sub-varieties : North Indian, South Indian and Madras type and feel that it is just another spider web of information to try and interpret and would be more difficult to understand were certain traits/character or pheno expression and what different breeds or asil lines these traits / pheno expression are coming from or influence by with out starting from the top or beginning
Iv always wanted to read these books and it looks like I will soon start but figure I would ask you guys first to see witch one is best but I’ll probably end up reading all of them

Have you guys read the Book by H.W.Schmudde ?

Oriental Gamefowl by Horst W. Schmudde​

​

 

[cubalaya]

Nice yes they do resemble the KULANG large asil lines based on there LBS size and hight I have read about like what they call the Peruvadai type and nothing like the ones
Herbert Atkinson mention of being purebred Asil that only have a maximum weight of 6.5 Lbs but what i am seeing is that the fan tail wide spread tail not long may come from a smaller asil line that they may have bred in to the larger lines for that trait just from what I’m am seeing no evidence or proof yet but looks like what you were saying @nicalandia I wonder if any of the books like Carlos Finsterbusch's "Cockfighting all over the World would shed light on PBA or there origin I know it’s kinda a old book from what I see lol really old but they have the following varieties mentioned like the Hyderabad, Calcutta and Madras. And feel that may steer me in the right direction to start to understand what we are seeing in the modern asil lines we have today I read that the native breeders nowadays use a different classification system Being that The large Asil are divided into sub-varieties : North Indian, South Indian and Madras type and feel that it is just another spider web of information to try and interpret and would be more difficult to understand were certain traits/character or pheno expression and what different breeds or asil lines these traits / pheno expression are coming from or influence by with out starting from the top or beginning
Iv always wanted to read these books and it looks like I will soon start but figure I would ask you guys first to see witch one is best but I’ll probably end up reading all of them

Have you guys read the Book by H.W.Schmudde ?

Oriental Gamefowl by Horst W. Schmudde​

​

Yes i have that book

 

[cubalaya]

Now i could be wrong but i dont see anything in that book calling a parrot beak asil an actual pure breed. My guess is they used kulang, thai and desi and when they inbred enough to get the deformed heads they kept family breeding them, only keeping the parrot beak headed

 

[BirdmanCA]

Now i could be wrong but i dont see anything in that book calling a parrot beak asil an actual pure breed. My guess is they used kulang, thai and desi and when they inbred enough to get the deformed heads they kept family breeding them, only keeping the parrot beak headed

love the response thnk you for your thoughts I know you would have a much better idea then most out there with RIR or your every day run of the mill breeds I’m not looking to just Toss around ideas with regular backyard chicken owners with this topic I’m looking to crack a code that will only be known by Oriental game fowl collectors,enthusiast and breeders I will be looking in to that idea and running it across a couple of different breeders that I know to see what they think I have never heard of them doing that but it sounds like you might be right and I like your explanation and see a similarity in both yours and @nicalandia answers to my question on how the PBA beaks were created like @nicalandia said lots of people don’t really even know unless they start to ask their mentors or the previous breeders of that same line of bird what or how they got to that point in there line as in what it took breeding what breeds or lines / sub-varieties were used and so forth I know it’s already been quite a runaround with these PBA questions but we might be getting some were I feel I’m getting closer and closer every time I ask different people I will be contacting Jorge Clark of AZ a Malay breeder to see what he has to say I sure hope he has the time to talk soon or even the willingness to go down the rabbit hole of the PBA lineage / origins I see some of his birds and it looks like he has done some research and development to his line to keep there combs really big and think he may have some answers to atlest the PBA unique an extreme comb shape if not more like beak shape Etc.

 

[BirdmanCA]

they have walnut combs like kulang asil. their tails resemble some thai that i have seen.

Any more information or pictures of the Thai’s that you mentioned seeing whit this fan shape long tail I know a family that breed Thai and have a long history with that breed and I would love to pic there brain just need a couple leads or a direction to go with the conversation as in what line or region this Thai you’ve seen comes from or any pictures i’ve read somewhere that the Thai and or other asil countries do you have something similar I’ll have to find the post or website again

 

[cubalaya]

Any more information or pictures of the Thai’s that you mentioned seeing whit this fan shape long tail I know a family that breed Thai and have a long history with that breed and I would love to pic there brain just need a couple leads or a direction to go with the conversation as in what line or region this Thai you’ve seen comes from or any pictures i’ve read somewhere that the Thai and or other asil countries do you have something similar I’ll have to find the post or website again

I had a chart with every family of thai gamefowl at one time. LHK and Pradu are common but many others

 

[nicalandia]

The key for a Huge Cushion/Walnut Comb is to start with a Huge Pea Comb, my birds have very thick pea combs, I often wondered how they would look if I add a Rose Comb to the mix, but I have yet to find a single Rose Comb good type Asil that will not ruin my type.

Look at his Pea Comb

 

[BirdmanCA]

The key for a Huge Cushion/Walnut Comb is to start with a Huge Pea Comb, my birds have very thick pea combs, I often wondered how they would look if I add a Rose Comb to the mix, but I have yet to find a single Rose Comb good type Asil that will not ruin my type.

Look at his Pea Comb

View attachment 2930026

Wow that is a nice pea comb

 

[Chiduckn]