What are your thoughts on Greenfire Farms?

[ChickenCanoe]

I looked into importation. It is really not that hard.
And the process is a ton faster with eggs.

It is pretty hard and expensive. It isn't a simple matter of getting some permits, flying to the country, buying some eggs of the desired breed and hopping back on the plane.
I certainly wouldn't go through such an expense without hand carrying the eggs - not trusting them to shipping.
I agree that eggs are much easier, faster and less expensive. Live birds are required to be quarantined for 30 days at a USDA Animal Import Center in addition to a few other requirements not necessary for eggs. That quarantine is at the expense of the importer - that means you. That not only results in the cost of the facility, feed and veterinary services but if any or all birds die during the month, one is out all of that cost and all previously incurred costs.
For importing eggs:

• All hatching eggs of poultry imported into the United States must be accompanied by a USDA import permit VS Form 17-129 (except through a land border port from Canada).

• Current veterinary health certificate issued by a full-time salaried veterinarian of the agency responsible for animal health of the national government in the exporting country of origin.

• Importers should submit the application and the processing fee for a permit by check, money order, charge card or by providing a USDA user fee account. If changes need to be made for a permit after it has been issued, there is an additional fee. Current fees can be found here.

• Fees apply if arrival is during regular working hours (approximately 8:00 AM - 4:00 PM, Monday through Friday), and prior notification has been given. Overtime charges apply if the bird arrives before or after these hours. In addition, USDA port veterinarians are not stationed full-time at each port of entry, prior notification is critical to the import process.

The veterinary health certificate is perhaps the hardest part. The expense and legwork for the health certificate provided by a government vet in the exporting country is up to finding a breeder in that country willing to do that. It is at minimum, well over a three month process. You have to find a farm with a minimum of 150 birds that can be tested for TRT, EDS, SE.
If eggs happen to be from a country that is not declared to be Newcastle free. Of which there are many. (most of Asia, Africa, Middle East and Eastern Europe) The eggs have to travel from port of entry into the US to the hatchery in a vehicle sealed by the USDA. Eggs must be hatched and brooded under the supervision of the Area Veterinarian in Charge (AVIC) of the state of destination. The hatchery must meet biosecurity standards established by the AVIC. Inspection and approval by the AVIC must be done prior to the issuance of the USDA import permit.
Poultry from those eggs must remain in quarantine for at least 30 days and during that time are subject to inspections, disinfections and diagnosis that the USDA requires to determine no poultry communicable diseases are present - that is all additional cost to the importer (you).
Importation of any avian species, including eggs, is also under the purview and regulation of the Fish and Wildlife Service which may also require an import permit and further inspections.
Consider also that timing is of the essence. One would want to import a significant number of eggs to make the effort worthwhile. Days of collection, travel time, delays when arrival times don't coincide with days and times USDA personnel are available. Then getting the eggs to the hatching destination before they are too old to set.
I would want to verify fertility rate and hatchability.
I would want to bring back a minimum of 100 eggs. 200 would perhaps make the entire process worth the effort. That would also require making suitable packing cases for that many eggs. Remember you'll be paying carry on bag fees and possibly need a special exemption from the airline. I certainly wouldn't check that bag.
If someone wants a particularly rare breed, there may not be flocks of sufficient size in the originating country to be able to pass muster for the veterinary inspections. That is provided that the breeder or farm operator wants to be hassled with all those inspections and blood tests. I'd charge a pretty penny for those eggs if it were me.
Lead time could easily be a year or more. Travel to the country and try to find flocks of the desired breed large enough to handle the veterinary process and provide enough quality eggs in short order so they are fresh. One would need an open ended airline ticket in case of delays which is much more expensive.
If I'm importing a breed known for specific characteristics, like egg color. I would want to find a farm producing the best eggs according to standard. That takes a lot of time when farms may be scattered far and wide in a region, not to mention a potential language barrier and a means of reaching all the properties and getting approval from the farm manager to allow access and inspection.

It's a big deal. Hence the cost of newly imported birds at Greenfire farms.

 

[FishMtFarm]

I’ll just stick with my good ole heritage breeds and my silkies.

 

[drumstick diva]

Thank you for providing the "other side," Chicken Canoe. Over the years I sent a few American Cocker Spaniels to English breeders. They had to pay plenty to have the dogs in quarantine - can't remember how long but, was really overkill. The dogs all had their current rabies shots, weren't ever exposed to wild animals etc.

The quarantine was for a number of months - rabies certainly would have shown up before that period - if the dogs had been incubating the disease. I don't know how they could afford it.

The last one I sent at no charge & in-whelp because the importer promised the female dog would not be put to sleep after it had the last litter. She lied, after a last litter at 7 years of age - she passed away. Just like the other one I had sent her previously. Funny that my "sibling dogs "lived much longer than 7 years., some to 12-14.

I know with chickens some folks eat their birds when they stop laying. Some let them live out their lives as in an "old age hens home." I have no argument with the former.

But when someone agrees to letting dogs live out their natural life and then cuts it short because it's more economical that really frosts me. The woman wrote to me for some time afterwards - I never responded. Never sent any more dogs out of the country either.

 

[Kusanar]

In addition to the crazy specifications for importation, eggs don't handle flying well. A member here was starting a poultry business in the Philippines and even though he didn't have to do any of the quarantine stuff listed above (going from a "clean" country to a "dirty" country is TONS easier than going from a "dirty" country to the US which is a "clean" country) he still had some dismal results with hatching the eggs due to the flight and possibly the x-rays used on them. Lucky for him, he made a LOT of trips back and forth as a regular part of his life, so if a batch only hatched out 2 eggs he could simply take another 50 eggs, but the number of shipments was crazy for the number of birds he got over there to start with.

 

[HenHouse4Life]

So taking importation issues into some consideration, has anyone had health issues with chicks or chickens from GF? They do have beautiful birds and I'm not against or for them as I've never purchased their poultry or eggs.... I'm just curious. Are their birds that much better or closer to SOP than say a smaller scale breeder?

 

[Cyprus]

So taking importation issues into some consideration, has anyone had health issues with chicks or chickens from GF? They do have beautiful birds and I'm not against or for them as I've never purchased their poultry or eggs.... I'm just curious. Are their birds that much better or closer to SOP than say a smaller scale breeder?

From what I have heard, their Ixworth are pretty close to top quality.
Their Cemani's are really not that good; but they can be built from the bottom up.

I think the thing about GF is that they HAVE what a lot of U.S breeders don't. So it may not be about quality so much as quantity.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Their most expensive birds are not at any other breeders in the US.
Greenfire Farms' market niche is much different than virtually any other breeder.
While they may have some of the same breeds others have, most are not attainable elsewhere here.
Extremely rare breeds and the concept of SOP are an oxymoron.
I think a statement in their terms of agreement illuminates this difference.

• What You Should Expect. You should expect birds that reflect the fundamental attributes of the breed. You should not expect a cosmetically perfect bird. In fact, you should expect to find some defects in virtually every bird you raise. Just as every child is not destined to become a supermodel, every bird is not destined to win ribbons at shows. Only a tiny fraction of chickens conform to their breed standard in all respects. We do not represent that every bird we sell is show quality or is flawless. You should receive birds that can be the foundation for a breeding program that with enough time and skill can produce show-quality birds. You should also realize that the rarer the breed, the more likely you are to encounter problems related to inbreeding. For some breeds and varieties that we sell, the global breeding population consists of fewer than a dozen hens. We cull for obvious defects like crooked toes, but low fertility, low egg production, low disease resistance, and other challenges are not uncommon with extremely rare breeds. If you encounter these challenges when the birds become adults, you will need to address them with your own breeding plan. We do not offer refunds beyond the 72-Hour Live Chick Guarantee.

The breed I raise was brought to the US in two egg importations by a group of individuals. The variety I'm focused on are from descendants of approximately 20 chicks that hatched from those original shipments. They became fairly widespread within a few years but being extremely wary, skittish and aloof, they fell out of favor with those that want their chickens to be calm lap pets, more like Orps, JGs and Silkies. That is not this bird. Due to the small gene pool, I'm constantly struggling with feather color sports, aberrations in earlobe, leg and egg color. It seems like every time I get close to an SOP by Catalonian and Irish standards, it seems like there is a mink, or other predator massacre. What makes it hard for me and places like Greenfire is that there is no other source of the same breed obtainable without additional prohibitively extreme expense. What you have in your possession is all the genetic foundation you have to work with.

 

[Folly's place]

I really appreciate this conversation! And, all the best to you folks who want to continue and develop these rare breeds, however difficult it is.
Mary

 

[nhbradley]

It was me selling the 55 Flowerys! I hatched them for a friend who won one of GFF's E-Bay auctions. They weren't able to take them after they hatched and I'm not really interested in keeping them. They're pretty birds, just not my thing. I think they won the auction for $22, and shipping was $15. The listing was for 10-55 Flowery Eggs, she sent 12. I incubated 7 of them for her, they all hatched so that works out to be about $5.30 per chick. Which is pretty reasonable as far as hatching eggs or chicks go.

Well that's a new wording selling tactic as I ever heard one

 

[chickenenthusiasts5698]

I haven’t heard good things about them (I haven’t ever bought from them personally this is all stuff i’ve seen on here (BYC) and in my FB groups) I’ve heard their Marans are super overpriced for the quality of them (I have always heard theyre low/poor quality) And i’ve seen several post/forums about them having diseases in their flock. Don’t know if any of this is true but it’s enough for me to not want to buy from them or anybody selling birds from their stock.